Guarantees

[Dave]

Reading the cordless drill thread, why does everyone quote a guarantee above the sale of goods act? After all, if the guarantee is 12 months, then surely the SoGA is good for much longer.

Just curious.

Dave

[Andy Hall]

Well not quite. There are several things at work here. From the legal perspective, there are several possibly relevant areas of legislation:

- SoGA. This does not have a specific time associated with it, contrary to popular understanding. Like a lot of UK law, reasonableness tests are applied.

- Statutes of limitations. This limits the maximum period of applicability of SoGA and numerous other pieces to 6 years.

- Distance selling regulations which come into play in addition to SoGA.

Warranties are a convenience for the end user and potentially the retailer who doesn't really want to handle product issues anyway if he's a volume operation. However, following some EU Directives, if a manufacturer offers a warranty of X years, that is now binding.

Therefore, from a legal perspective, I am much more likely to be able to pursue a case against a retailer if I have bought a good quaity product vs. a piece of junk. In other words, if I buy a Festool product and in an unlikely event it fails within about 5-6 years, I would be in a strong position to pursue a claim. If I buy a Hoo Flung Dung one then I would not reasonably expect that.

This was made murky a few years back when an EU Directive sought to set a minimum period for statute of limitations in respect of consumer goods all over Europe. Quite a lot of countries didn't have applicable legislation at all, so the decision was made to make it at least two years. It didn't affect the UK because we already have 6. The effect in the press of the consumer organisations in countries such as Germany was much confusion with people being told by the uninformed that this meant a minimum of 2 years *warranty*. It doesn't. It just means that claims must be pursuable for minimum of two years. One of the effects has been that consumer pressure has led to some manufacturers throwing in the towel and just putting on 2 years warranty. Some have even made that pan Europe because it's easier.

The marketing position is really the one that drives the 2 and 3 year warranties. It began with the volume retailers such as B&Q wanting an own brand product line that sells at a lower price point that the well known brands. Moreover, they didn't want to handle service - they are a warehouse and distribution operations, and service is not something that they want to do. The calculations are then simple. They can either get the manufacturer to take back all defects and replace them - complete products - or they can negotiate a return percentage with the Chinese manufacturer. It's a risk and numbers game.

The products are unknown in the market and so the retailer takes the issues of reliability and service off of the table for the hard of thinking. What they don't tell the customer is that they will replace the product for 2 or 3 years but that after that there is nothing. I still see people in B&Q genuinely shocked when they discover this and realise that the service is, in reality, non existant. Nonetheless, there are still people who are attracted by such "warranties" as a selling point. This has worn somewhat thin in the last year or two as the branded manufacturers have begun offering simlar warranties but also proper service and spares.

Therefore, the correct financial planning for budgeting on a DIY shed private label product is to write down the cost to zero at the end of the warranty period.

It's for that reason, among many more that these cheap to buy tools are not good value for money. If I buy a drill with a two year warranty for £40 and it breaks after those 2 years, on a five year rolling basis it will have cost me £100 plus two extra trips to the store - so perhaps £120 to £150 overall. For the same money I can buy a far superior branded professional product, that is better to use and highly unlikely to fail in 5 years because it has been properly designed, manufactured and QA screened.

In the meantime, the DIY stores are interested in shifting volume and have a plentiful supply of customers who are unable to work out the financial and other implications of a purchase beyond the number on the price tag.

[Owain]

Not necessarily. A judge might decide that your reasonable expectations under the SoGA for the length of time your £1.99 power drill should last is less than 12 months, but the warranty gives you *additional* rights.

The warranty is also usually offered by the manufacturer, which is handy if the retailer goes bust.

Owain

[Invisible Man]

As a private individual I practically always use a credit card so if the retailer and the manufacturer go bust there is another option. Credit card issuers often take a more realistic view of claims than retailers in my experience.

[Invisible Man]

The only reservation I have with buying tools for the long term is with cordless. Batteries move on and replacements might not be available.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The battery pack can usually be re-celled regardless of age. Most use the same physical size cells in different multiples - and I expect will continue to do so. Even a change to a different type can be catered for if you really want.

[The Medway Handyman]

That works on the assumption that the 2 or 3 year warranty applies to the replacement - in many cases it doesn't.

My take on this is simple. If I'm going to be using a power tool on a daily basis, or need specific accuracy/power/reliabity/whatever then I'll buy a top brand like Makita. Hence drill drivers, circ saw. jigsaw, impact drivers, autofeed screwdriver are all Makita.

If I'm going to use a power tool occassionally, where specific accuracy isn't an issue, I'll buy cheap & write it off after a year. Examples being a £10 Homebase angle grinder, a £40 Titan 6kg SDS (used only as a breaker), a £30 Screwfix reciprocating saw etc. When I need something like this I just keep an eye out for deals & offers.

Worst example here is the £40 breaker. £0:77 a week to have the convenience of it being to hand whenever I need it, which might only be once or twice a month. If it lasts more than a year I'm in front.

Replacement under warranty doesn't cost me anything in reality - I'm in Screwfix/B&Q/Wickes two or three time a week anyway.

[Ed Sirett]

Quite, and this is another point that a branded manufacturer will often be able to supply replacement battery packs for a long time.

[Andy Hall]

Which is another reason to buy a good brand. Batteries continue to be available.

[Andy Hall]

Typically the warranty runs from the date of original purchase even if the tool is replaced. That's why the economics run in the way that I described.

[Mark]

I noticed in screwfix latest catalogue that both Worx and AEG are offering free lifetime battery replacement on their cordless products.

The actual VFM of the above offer is debatable though.....

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[Dave Plowman (News)]

Noticed B&Q still sell the batteries for my PPPro 18 volt which is quite a few years old. Not that I'd buy one - the cells are rubbish. I replaced them with Sanyo.

[Andy Hall]

It's also unclear what the terms and conditions are for "lifetime"

[John Rumm]

Reminds me when years ago I prompted a manufacturer to explain what was actually meant by the "lifetime" guarantee that they were offering on some floppy discs. Turns out that "lifetime" in question was actually the lifetime of the disc - not the user. The lifetime of the disc was defined as ending when it developed unrecoverable read/write errors!