Glossing - Arghhhhh

Damn
I have built a face-frame to replace the door/architrave of my boiler cupboard. Got it silky smooth, primer, 3 layers of undercoat, got that really smooth then affixed the frame to the cupboard.
Then the dreaded gloss (oil based, seems far superior to water based, prefer the longer open time). I have many runs and sags:( despite trying to lay on lightly and laying off each time it still ran when I wasnt looking!
I am now faced with flatting this coat down and trying again, only now the frame is attached to the cupboard it will be even harder to sand!!!!
Read all the threads on rollers, brushes etc... anyone have any good tips or ideas to share? I hate gloss and next house will be natural wood!
Cheers
EC
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Sanding out runs in gloss can be a tricky business - the extra thickness of the paint in the runs means that they take an age to dry properly - days, weeks... A light touch going through a couple of grades is necessary IME, and it can be worth doing it in a couple of attempts - take the top of the run off, then leave the newly exposed (still soft) paint in the run to dry for another day and go at it again. The problem seems to be that the solvents have by now penetrated & slightly softened the previously dry paint below, which means that the undercoat now starts to come off under the run, spoiling that nice flat finish below.
All I can suggest is that this is an area where a really light painting technique (more really thin coats than one or two thick ones) is essential, and good trade paint is superior to cheaper consumer paints. I generally use Leyland Trade or Johnstones, but have used Dulux Trade, Permaglaze, etc with good results in the past.
We use eggshell in preference now, seems to give better, flatter results (also doesn't require undercoat).
Laying on thinly and evenly with a gloss roller and then laying off lightly with a decent brush has given me good results. I use a mini-roller designed for paintng behind radiators, but with a foam gloss roller (Wickes do a pack of 10 for a couple of quid). In between coats I remove the roller and wrap it up tightly in cling film, which keeps it workable. This also works quite well with brushes, saving the need for perpetual cleaning with white spirit.
If you do see a run or curtain developing, there's just too much paint on that area, and you'll just need to keep going back to it and brushing it out several times otherwise it'll keep coming back.
That's about it, really. For perfection, thin, thin thin coats and a decent trade paint.
cheers Richard
-- Richard Sampson
email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
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Totally agree with the thin coats bit, and indeed I did try to lay on thin but as I tried to do this I could see areas that were not being covered by the gloss and so I added more paint - my downfall, I guess it would have flowed out by itself.
I will leave it to dry for a week and then flat as you suggest and then try the 'lay on with foam roller, lay off with brush' technique.
Love woodwork, hate paint :(
Cheers
EC
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On 28 Jul 2003 05:43:45 -0700, ERIC___ snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Eric Cartman) wrote:

You've answered your own question, I think. Think "thin" while putting it on, and leave coverage to the accumulation of coats.
Julian
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RichardS wrote:

For perfection, get spray cans of humbrol enamel from Ye Model Shoppe.
And use same color undercoat.
Its surprisngly controllable, and makes the best fisih of all.

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Is it possible to spray gloss?
It's just that I noticed the wood I accidentally over sprayed with cellulose car paint looks better than the stuff painted in traditional gloss...
Lee
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Yep! http://www.diy-compressors.co.uk/spraying-painting.htm
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With the right spraying equipment, yes as house paint is sooo thick, even after you have thinned it down. But it comes down to cost, all the masking up you need to do if spraying in situ etc...
I would prefer to spray myself but can't warrant the price of buying or hiring the equipment to do it!
EC
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Eric Cartman wrote:

Buy cans of spray on enamel. Just use a bit of card to mask as you go - chuck it as soon as its wet tho or it will drip on teh walls.,

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Another question, once I have flatted my oil based gloss work will the enamel go on straight over it or is there a chance it could react with the gloss?
Cheers
EC
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ERIC___ snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Eric Cartman) wrote in message

Hi
Personally I'd want any gloss off. Enamel is very hard stuff, breaks easily, and new gloss paint is soft, so not the best base for enamel.
I've had excellant results with enamel and car paint, but not put it onto new gloss before. But I think whenever you use paint types that werent designed to go together, and use them in apps they werent made for, theres always going to be some risk of things not working out.
I'm hoping to try some acrylic (car) spray here in the hope it lasts much much longer than trad gloss.
Regards, NT
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snipped-for-privacy@meeow.co.uk (N. Thornton) wrote in message

I hear what you are saying but I just aint got the heart to strip it all down again now, especially as the frame is now firmly fixed (biscuits and gripfill) to the wall, plus fresh new paint surrounding it on the walls!
I've got a week or so until the gloss fully hardens so plenty of time to mull over which way to go (shoot myself and end it all perhaps?)
Cheers
EC .
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Stick with the gloss for this one - try the roller. You need (more expensive) celulose thinners for cleaning brushes for enamel anyway.
For sanding back, I'd do a little each day after the first couple of days initial drying - shoudl speed up the drying of the layer below the top of the highs (runs, curtains).
I'm a perfectionist with paintwork - a trait drummed into me by the chief decorator (namely my mother) when I was still living there. You can get perfectly good finishes with gloss, but as I say I've found a better, flatter finish can be created with ease using eggshell.
cheers Richard
-- Richard Sampson
email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
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snipped-for-privacy@meeow.co.uk (N. Thornton) wrote:

The term "Enamel" is often missleading.
Enamel means "hard glass like coating" but the term is also used to describe a gloss finish that can be available in any paint form, Enamel is used as just another name for a gloss, Albeit a hard or harder gloss.
An ordinary Cellulose car paint can be oven baked thus it becomes a stove enamelled finish.
Tekaloid synthetic oil paint is also referred to as an enamel. There are Cellulose enamels, Acrylic enamels, Specific stoving enamels like powder coating, Synthetic enamels, Yacht enamels, Vitreous enamels.
Paint manufactures widely use the term "Enamel" to cash in on a better more sellable paint product simply by calling it an enamel.
Steve.
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Eric Cartman wrote:

Test and try....
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ERIC___ snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Eric Cartman) wrote:

If the enamel is synthetic you'll not get a solvent reaction.
Steve.
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Beware, anything that gets accidentally oversprayed always looks great. It's just the piece you intended spraying always turns into a disaster! Such is life.
:-)
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Eric Cartman wrote:

Watch out - its slow drying so tends to run more and dust has more chance to stick.

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ERIC___ snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Eric Cartman) wrote:

You cannot spray cellulose or acrylic type car paints over oil or emulsion paints, You will get a solvent reaction that causes bubbling/lifting because the solvents are incompatible.
You'll have to stick with a synthetic oil finish.
Beware of paints called enamels, They are tough yes, but they may not be compatible with your existing synthetic paint structure, They are often Acrylic bases or even cellulose.
Steve.
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