Glazing -- metal strip showing

[Anna]

I live in a maisonette built in the 60s. The front door is wooden, with glass top and bottom. The glass is held in with beading not putty. When I moved in last year, it hadn't been refurbished or reglazed since the place was built. I considered getting a new door, as several neighbours have done, but decided instead to keep the original and get it reglazed.

I went to a local glazier, chose a pattern (stippolyte I believe it's called) and asked their advice about how thick the glass could be. I wanted it to be as thick as possible for security reasons however the glaziers said it wouldn't make any difference as any glass could be shattered just as easily. Didn't know that before.

They sent someone round to have a look and measure. He said they could fit double-glazing of a certain thickness. They quoted £215 for the work and today they have been and done it. But I'm not very happy because it turns out there is a metal strip all around which is visible. The fitters said it was because of the depth of the rebate. They said it was not possible to fit a double-glazed unit of that thickness, without the metal strip being visible, because the rebate was not deep enough.

It wasn't important to me to have double-glazing in the door, as it only opens into a stairway. If they had told me before hand that this metal strip would be visible with double-glazing, I would have asked for single-glazing. However, when I rang them up and said that, they said they don't do single-glazing. I feel that in that case they ought to have explained the situation to me and then I could have chosen to go elsewhere to get the door single-glazed.

Am I being unreasonable? I would really prefer it to be redone with single glazing so that there's no metal strip showing, but it seems as if that will have to be done by a different company. Any advice on the best and fairest (to all concerned) way of dealing with this problem? They are ringing back to discuss it later today. Appreciate any opinions.

Anna

[TMC]

It is common practice in doors to fit single pane safety glass which is very difficult to break through although it will crack if hit Its construction is in fact 2 panes of 3mm glass bonded together with a polythene type membrane total thickness is therefore 6mm which will fit almost any existing rebate

This is similar in its security and safety level to wired glass but nicer to look at

Double glazed units are no more secure than single glazed if hit with a sharp object (They may be made of toughened glass which breaks into small not sharp pieces much like a car window) bit don't do much for security)

Tony

[Chris Bacon]

They perhaps could have said something about it - however, I don't think you'll be able to force them to change it. They just might, as a goodwill gesture - they might also help you to disguise it, by running some decorative film around the edge. Ask nicely before sticking the boot in!

If you do get single glazing, & judging by the fact that you thought thick glass is harder to break you are at least a little concerned about security, specify laminated glass. This is a real swine to break though.

[Anna]

[..]

[..]

Thanks, that's extremely useful to know.

Before I try to repeat that to the glaziers -- I don't understand why it's called single pane if it is 2 panes bonded together? Doesn't that make it double-glazing?

Anna

[dennis]

It is *far* safer and stronger than wired glass. Wired glass is really for windows in fire barriers as it will stay in there for longer. It won't stop you falling through the window on a balcony for instance wile laminated glass will even though you frequently see it used for this.

They make a lot of noise.

[Phil Anthropist]

No. Double glazing is two separate sheets of glass with a gap between, the gap being air or gas filled.

[Anna]

Um, I don't make a habit of sticking boots in. As I said, I'm looking for opinions on what would be fairest to all concerned. So I'm prepared to compromise. But just putting up with what they've done is not my idea of "fairest to all concerned". I didn't go in asking for double- glazing, it was the glaziers who suggested it -- presumably, I now realize, because double-glazing is all they do. If they had explained that, and told me the consequences of having double-glazing (i.e. the strip being visible), I would have gone elsewhere and got single-glazing and by now all would be hunky-dory.

My plan is to ask them to reglaze the door using the type of glass recommended by Tony (two panes bonded together). If they aren't willing to do that, then we will have to try to negotiate a compromise, such as if I pay them (quite a bit) less than the £215 and get someone else to reglaze it.

Would sooner brick the door up altogether than have decorative film around the edge.

Is that the same as the two panes of glass bonded together? It does seem the best solution.

Anna

[TMC]

Its just called safety or laminated glass I was merely describing its construction

Double or even triple glazing involves separate panes of glass with a gap between them. This gap can be as little as 10mm but in practice may be 20mm or even 25mm It is this air gap which assists the insulation and heat retention within the room

Tony

[Chris Bacon]

Yup. That's between you and them - good luck!

Well, it was just a suggestion, as you asked for them... I don't like these stick-on things either, I might add.

That's it - "laminated" - hated by burglars generally. Assuming the frame, door or whatever is secure, to get through laminated glass needs a fair and sustained effort with a hammer or something.

[Chris Bacon]

You can get it down to 4-6-4 as standard units. This sort of double glazing (even in the larger thicknesses) does very little to help noise reduction, though (compared to single glazing).

[Anna]

I see. Thanks.

Anna

[Anna]

I understand now. The glaziers have not rung back, so I will write to them tomorrow and ask them if they can replace the double-glazing with laminated glass. Sounds like exactly what I was looking for.

Many thanks for your help.

Anna

[Anna]

No. Though now I think about it, bricking the door up might be a little over the top.

That's what I shall try for then. Thanks a lot.

Anna

[Lobster]

Yes, definitely ask for 'laminated' - that's the buzzword - don't even mention anything about panes bonded together or that will introduce double-glazing-type confusion.

From what I've heard, this outfit sounds an absolute shower. What do they mean, they don't do single glazing? Evidently they manufacture double-glazing units - what's that made from? Er, single panes of glass. Is the company one of these replacement window-type companies, rather than a proper glazier? If they really don't do single glazing, they should have come clean and turned the job down, rather than stitching you up with an inappropriate double-glazed unit.

The point is that there are a huge number of windows around the country which can only take single panes of glass, not sealed units; the one in your door is one of them - that's why you can see the edge of the unit exposed round the edge, as it's too deep for the recess. The company had no business to be fitting a sealed unit in there if it wasn't meant to take one.

If I were you my next step would be to get quotes from a couple of other (proper!) glaziers to supply and fit a pane of laminated glass of whatever size it is. I think you have a pretty strong case against the original company - might be worth a phone call to your local trading standards officer to see what he reckons... if he agrees, that would be ammunition for you to use when you are negotiating with the firm for your refund!

David

[Alex]

you could use a deeper glazing bead to cover the metal edging of the d/g unit ,this would be the best way to go alround and be the least expensive,even if they had to be specially made up

[Anna]

I think that's exactly the problem. I thought they were glaziers, but now it seems that they may be just a replacement-window company. The way I got to them, I was asking about glass in B%Q, thinking that I might be able to get the glass cut and then find someone to install it. But it turns out B&Q don't sell glass, so I asked them if they knew of a glazier, and this is the place they recommended. The shop seemed to me like a normal glazier, and when I explained what I wanted, I had a long and quite interesting chat with a guy who went back a long way, we were talking about how craftsmen used to be trained through apprenticeships and people learned a skill for years and years and really got experience with what they were doing. He talked a lot about different types of glass, and really seemed to know what he was talking about. Haven't seen him since.

I'm not sure if the glass is sitting in the recess at all. It seems possible that not only is the recess too shallow, but also it may be too narrow, so that possibly the double-glazed unit has just been glued in and the beading put back around it. The reason I think that is that the beading no longer sits quite flush with the door.

Fortunately, I haven't paid yet, but I will have to sort something out with them. They haven't rung me back, so it may be that they realize that they are in the wrong. Otherwise you would think they'd be on the phone demanding their money. I'll take your advice and get a couple of quotes, and then write to the company to ask them if they want to put it right and get paid.

Thanks very much for your advice.

Anna

[Anna]

Yes, I thought of that. I went outside and eyed it up to think what it would look like. Trouble is, all the doors in this block are the same, and to have a wider beading would make mine look different. Which I would rather avoid, and also think the Residents' Association might not be too happy. So I think that I will try to go back to scratch and get it done properly, even if it ends up costing me more money than it should have done.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Anna