Generators

[Huge]

Given that the rolling blackouts are likely to start in the next year or so, what kind of generator shall I buy? I'd prefer one that can run on central heating fuel, since I have a BFO tank of it.

[Bob Minchin]

Kipor diesels seem to have a reasonable reputation. I've been thinking along the same lines and looking at the 5.7kVA unit. Which will do refrigeration, lighting, heating, microwave and 'pooters. You can get auto start controllers for them too. You might need to do a bit of house rewiring to split off the loads you want to protect and connecting the whole lot could well overload the genny. You will have to arrange to add some oil to your central heating fuel as on its own it will not have enough lubrication for the high pressure fuel pump which will otherwise have a short life.

Bob

[Dave Liquorice]

2kVA does us, for the best maintained if possible heating system, 1 x freezer, 1 x fridges/freezer and fish tank (fresh cold water, so just the filter). Lighting comes from gas lanterns, cooking from camping stove (2 rings and grill).

Central heating fuel is most likely to be paraffin not diesel. It is a lighter faction and thus more volatile. I don't know if paraffin would go

*BANG* too early in a diesel type engine set up to run on diesel. Straight vegetable oil might be a simpler to use alternative fuel, (filtered chip shop oil). New veg oil, even the cheap stuff, isn't vastly different in price to red diesel.

Be aware that a genset running lightly loaded is not very efficient. A "normal" house has a base load of around 1kW...

[Broadback]

Years ago (1950s), in the RAF, I was trained on generators, these were Listers, there were some very big ones around. The largest had a cranked lever, when lifted you popped in the cylinders so that they were decompressed, then swung the starting handle like billyo, when you got a good sped up you dropped the lever and away it went. Well maybe. We used to play this game of re-engaging the cylinders individually to see how it worked. Not too well was the quick answer. Though it brought the instructor out smartish.

[Lobster]

Just out of interest (since I have no immediate plans to buy one); how do you actually set about wiring a genny into a domestic house as a back up to the normal mains?

I've heard of people running a cable from one with a standard 13A plug top, and plugging that into a socket in the house; but somewhow doubt that's the 'approved' method!

[Phil L]

what blackouts?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Given by who?

[Huge]

Have you, perhaps, not been paying attention?

[Roger Mills]

Bit of an under-statement!!

Others who are far more expert than me will be along, but you need a hefty change-over switch designed to prevent both sources (mains and generator) ever being connected at the same time. Feeding electricity into 'dead' mains is not good for the health of anyone working on the cables further down the line!

Also, having a 13A plug whose pins are live when not plugged into anything is somewhat short of clever!

[Tim Watts]

On Monday 25 February 2013 17:11 Lobster wrote in uk.d-i-y:

No - that's the "instant death to some unsuspecting fool" method ;-)

Simplest way is an extr aradial circuit, not connected to the CU. Put sockets in useful locations - eg near internet routers, boiler/CH circuit, cooker (if gas).

Adapt the boiler/CH feed so it plus into another socket powered off the CU.

Present the other end as a male "socket" on the wall (ie pins) and stick an RCD in. Probably want an earth rod as you may not be able to reply on the mains earth during a failure.

When power is lost, start up genny, plug into male socket main input, replug internet, boiler and gas cooker into adjacent genny fed sockets.

The fancier way is a type approved generator changeover unit - not cheap and harder to wire in without some CU rejigging.

[Phil L]

If you mean have I not got involved in the willy-waving competition in this group about nuclear / solar / windmills / etc, then no, if you mean something else, please explain.

[John Williamson]

The Powers That Be are claiming that there will be no power cuts due to the imminent reduction in generating capacity in the UK.

The installed electricity generation capacity, as given by the generating companies, is expected to fall below predicted peak demand within five to seven years due to older and larger coal and nuclear stations being taken off line due to old age and "green" requirements which make coal uneconomic to burn. There is currently very little reserve to cope with plant breakdowns and the like. During the latest cold snap, operational reserve was less than 5% at times, from what I heard and read.

Going by these figures, I am considering a standby generator for when the lights go out due to load shedding caused by insufficient generation capacity.

[harry]

If you have 35sec (pressure jet burner) it is the same thing as diesel oil.

28 sec (vapourising burner) is not suitable for diesel engines. It can be run in spark engines but the engine needs to be started and warmed up on petrol. Also the engine needs modifying. Compression ratio reduced/ignition retarded. It is the same stuff almost as the old TVO used on some agricultural tractors years ago.

Don't think running or installing emergency generators is straightforward, there are numerous problems. You are better to get a portable and some extension leads,think out what you need and have a test run.

Poor wave forms can upset many electronic devices, you need to see what the manufacturer has to say about this.

I have torches, candles and a woodburning stove I can cook on.

[brass monkey]

Geroff, our neighbour uses an extension cable for his lawn mower. He inserts a 13A plugtop into a wall socket, that feeds about 15' of cable to another

13A plugtop which plugs into an adapter. The mower then gets plugged into another socket on the adapter. Works a treat, AND, he's still alive. ;)

[brass monkey]

If you have 35sec (pressure jet burner) it is the same thing as diesel oil.

28 sec (vapourising burner) is not suitable for diesel engines. It can be run in spark engines but the engine needs to be started and warmed up on petrol. Also the engine needs modifying. Compression ratio reduced/ignition retarded. It is the same stuff almost as the old TVO used on some agricultural tractors years ago.

Don't think running or installing emergency generators is straightforward, there are numerous problems. You are better to get a portable and some extension leads,think out what you need and have a test run.

Poor wave forms can upset many electronic devices, you need to see what the manufacturer has to say about this.

I have torches, candles and a woodburning stove I can cook on.

------------------

C'mon harry, even you couldn't cook on a torch.

[Bill]

In message , Broadback writes

I have a 2 cylinder diesel Lister, 7.5KVA It has a hand crank and decompression lever, every time I've tried to start it this way I have had great fun trying to keep the revs up and drop the lever, definitely a 2 man job! Thank goodness it has a starter motor too!

It is a lovely engine, 3 or 4 years of inactivity in storage and I turned it over one day, before re-installing it, and the darn thing fired and ran on the fuel that was left in the line from when it was taken off it's last site.

Great for producing clouds of diesel smelling smoke if you manually control the throttle, my neighbours really like it :-(

You can't beat a good Lister! :-)

[John Rumm]

Don'tcha know his house is super insulated, he can smelt iron with a candle, while running the BBC from his electric car, all while being paid a fortune by TNP ;-)

[Bill]

This is probably a safer method.

But once you have spent £209.00 on this one you will likely think that you should have built your own.

>

[Simon Cee]

Small diesels are a false economy aiui. Service/repair outweighs fuel saved, but if you have lots of 'free' fuel... well maybe.

Gas conversion may be worth looking at. Petrol is fine but goes off, plus theres a 30 litre [I think] limit on home storage. LPG, or natural gas for extended runnng, but check regs if plumbing into mains gas.

Never ever feed the output into your ring main without disconnecting from the mains completely. You might kill a line repair worker, or at least fry your genny when mains suddenly comes back. A properly fitted transfer switch is the 'neat' way to do it, or a decent extension lead for the few appliances you'll be running.

Work your power requirements out carefully, add the wattages, and then add 5x the wattage of the biggest motor you'll be running. Fridge? Heating? to allow for start-up surge. Some say 10x.

Invrerter generators give beautiful smooth power, better than mains, ideal for computers and other sensitive equipment, plus much better fuel consumption. But at a price. Choose either ~honda, or, errr honda. But some are tricky to convert to gas - and whichever genny you choose, converting will probably void your warranty.

hth.

[Steve Firth]

Based on what I'm running in Italy, a Kipor 6700TA. These can be set up to autostart and have an ATS box for automatic transfer from failed mains to generator. They are 5kVA and produce reliable flicker-free current. Runs just fine on CH fuel and is fairly economical. Key start with a remote start option as well as auto start. Spares plentiful and cheap, easy maintenance.