Generators

[David.WE.Roberts]

Most of the budget portable generators (which won't drive the neighbours up the wall with the noise) are around 1-2kW so unlikely to support peak useage if you cook on electric.

The aim of batteries would be to keep essential services running - fridge/ freezer and central heating pump. In fact, configured as a UPS this would remove any issues about reconnecting or a switch over device. Just keep your essential load on batteries 24/7 and charge when the power is on.

So day load would be much like the overnight load assuming you cook on a portable gas stove (£10 at the moment) and use candles and such like for most of your lighting.

Apart from the fridge/freezer and the central heating you could put in some 12V lighting and avoid using the inverter for most tasks.

Still, if we ignore the silent(ish) portable handbags mainly used for camping, then looks a good bet at £1100.

Looking further at the portable handbags they don't have much of a fuel tank so they won't run for more than about 6 hours so if you want to use them overnight you may well have to get up and refill them.

I don't think they are designed for continuous running, either, so if the expectation is that power will be off for more than a day they may not be suitable.

Could be the time to start stockpiling old Lister genny sets which became redundant when rural places came on grid. :-)

So I guess the main question is "What load do you aim to support and for how long".

You also have to factor in the cost of automatic switching to the backup power supply.

Not being a champion for a UPS configuration in the house, but more interested in how well it costs in compared with various other options.

For a normal house in normal times this doesn't seem cost effective, but with long term dodginess in power supplies this might an interesting prospect.

If you had your basic IT kit (modems and routers and PCs) plus fridge and freezer and (non-electric) CH on a UPS then you could keep essential services up over a relatively long period of power in-and-outage.

You might even consider that solar power could have additional benefits once you had invested in storage technology.

From what has been said so far I think that full off grid independence probably costs about £1,500 - £1,100 for a diesel generator and £400 for the switching.

You might still want your PC(s) on a UPS, though.

Cheers

Dave R

[polygonum]

I understand where you question is coming from. One of the supreme frustrations at present is that when there is a power cut, not only do you lose lighting, heating, refrigeration, etc., BUT you also lose mobile phone and internet connectivity.

I suspect many of us would be a whole lot happier if Virgin cable, mobile operators, etc. actually were able to ensure that their bits kept running regardless. (I do not know about BT and ADSL or whatever so have left them out. Maybe they should be included.) After all, we can probably manage a mini-UPS for the router and use our battery-powered devices such as mobiles, lappies, tablets, etc. reasonably happily for a few hours.

This seems especially desirable if power cuts are indeed likely to be more frequent.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Your mobile phone should still work if it can find a cell transmitter still active. Do the service suppliers have a UPS at those - if not why not given their profits? And, of course, a wired domestic phone will still work too.

I'm just thinking perhaps all these suppliers should perhaps have to pay a larger amount for the electricity they use to help pay for new infrastructure. After all their big profits depends on it. ;-)

[Huge]

A big issue for those of us who work at home ...

[polygonum]

No - cell phone soften die with the power - though not always. And I believe that the precise impact does vary.

Were we to have something more akin to 1974 than we have seen since, many operators would find their customers extremely disgruntled. So indeed they should be preparing now. (Actually, should always have been prepared, in my view.)

After all, conventional land-line phones worked in power cuts.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'd say it's because the base stations it can find are fed from the same power as you, as it were.

Snag is we've been used to a pretty reliable system in this country for many years.

The infrastructure for that comes from earlier times and has merely been kept up to date, IMHO. Rather different from providing one from scratch. And the actual power consumption per phone is tiny compared to mobiles.

[Tim Watts]

On Wednesday 27 February 2013 13:09 Dave Plowman (News) wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Three's cell tower in Robertsbridge does not have local power backup - I know this from experience.

However, the Orange (I think, maybe it's Vodaphone) tower at Wadhurst Station looks like it might have a generator.

[polygonum]

Certainly agree that it depends on where the base stations get their power - hence the rather imperfect alignment between power cuts and phones working.

Maybe it is an inherited system for land-line phones - but surely there comes a point at which the same sort of service level should be available via mobile?

Most especially as more and more people do not have conventional land-lines and so a power cut potentially disables even 999/112 calls.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The BT system is based on one designed when it was a state monopoly - so most probably done to a spec, rather than down to the lowest cost.

Quite. Of course it might not have been foreseen that this would come about.

[polygonum]

Indeedy. And it was. At least by me. :-),

Funny how initially mobiles actually enhanced our ability to 999/112 calls from many places, and in many circumstances previously not possible.

But as people see less and less everyday need for land-lines, 999/112 is going to become ever less available.

[Mark]

I wonder how many people have a conventional land-line phone these days

-

[charles]

you are advised to have one. Quite useful for ringing your electricity supply co if the power's gone off.

[Frank Erskine]

Me me me. As well as a DECT thingie I have a Plan 107. Although it wouldn't call betwixt main and extension or power main-extension speech, exchange calls would still work fb. A simple 9-12V battery supply would restore full service.

Actually I have a couple of hundred dial-type phones (not all connected!)

[tulsarealty]

Some people are generating their own green energy and even taking themselves off the grid. There are some great guides out there on how to do this, some of which are listed on this site

if you're interested?

[damduck-egg]

Ours went to Brazil,along with a load of others . As the wires spread a dealer was buying up generators large and small crating them up and sending them to a dealer there. Circa 1965. 2 1/2KVA startomatic with Cambridge control box. Seems a tiny amount now but it kept lights and the telly going on winter nights. heating,cooking,hot water was by wood fired Rayburn. They weren't such a fashion item back then. I've often wondered what the 24V DC circuit to the starting relay which had to be completed through whatever lamp or appliance you turned on would do to some with modern devices.

G.Harman

[Bob Eager]

Most people who have ADSL...

[Steve Firth]

Well, there's egg and bacon, egg sausage and bacon Egg and spam Egg, bacon and spam Egg, bacon, sausage and spam Spam, bacon, sausage and spam Spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam Spam, sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam tomato and spam Spam, spam, spam, egg and spam Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.

Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam! Lovely Spam! Lovely Spam!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Quite. And my landline phone comes almost free.

[charles]

sorry, dear, spam's off.

[Tim Watts]

On Wednesday 27 February 2013 22:31 Mark wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Me - one dumb handset for exactly when the power fails and the mobile twoer goes out...