Gas Safety Check

I have just had a GSC done by a CORGI guy for our landlord. Last year it took him an hour, this time he was here about 10-15 mins. Is he skiving?
Funny Smell
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BJ wrote:

Most likely, its money for old rope. Presumably the landlord is paying so why not tell him?
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On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:12:54 +0000, BillR wrote:

He won't care how long it took the fitter, only if he could have got it done cheaper and that there were no problems reported.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
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Depends if he serviced aswell as checked. Last time he may have had to adjust things.
On a house with say three appliances (boiler, hob & fire0 it takes 20 mins to check only.
Yes, it's money for old rope.

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PJO wrote:

The guy I had in to service couldn't have taken more than 20 minutes and when he pointed at a dodgy heat exchanger I got the manufacturer in to replace it - the strip down and replacement was done within 30 minutes.
This fixed fee "including up to 1 hour labour" lark really is money for old rope - I don't see them refunding when significantly under 1 hour but they will be quick to charge for anything above one hour (probably only in 1 hour increments as well!).
Still...it has to be done...as not many of us have the necessary competency certificates (CORGI or otherwise) to be allowed to touch the stuff ourselves.
Interestingly, on the issue of whether or not it is illegal to deal with gas appliances yourself the engineer that I had in from the manufacturer (whether or not she had a vested interest in saying so) said that a lot of plumbers have been trying (and failing) to pass the exams for their competency certificate and just going back to their water-based installations.
It sounds like the definition of "competency", as per the regulations, may require paper proof of said skill, whether or not it has CORGI written on it. I'm still not 100% convinced that you can just say "I know what I'm doing" to avoid any trouble down the line.
just my two penn'orth
RM
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According to the Potterton website:
It is important to note that it is illegal for people who are not competent in gas safety to fit gas central heating boilers. Competency is deemed to be achieved by passing appropriate gas safety qualifications.
I think that says it all!!!!
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PJO wrote:

It might do, but then it's impossible to tell because just about everyone has vested interests in promoting the courses where you obtain these certificates.
The only source that is likely to be impartial enough for you to believe them on spec (the gas regulations themselves) is AFAIUI particularly vague in the area of defining what constitutes "competency"...unless someone can actually come up with an officially sourced definition, that is.
RM
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competent
to be

is.
We've been here before - about 2 weeks ago for the last bout.
There is a grey area with gas work on _your own_ installation, where competency is not rigourously defined.
There is absolutely no grey area when it comes to fitting, maintaining or performing statutory checks on gas appliances for others for profit/gain/whatever - you have to be Competent as defined by the HSE and the HSE define competency as being a registered CORGI member with the appropriate tickets for the work being undertaken. A quick check on the HSE's prosecutions database will show a lot of prosecutions for people (and companies) undertaking this work without CORGI membership, including at least one imprisonment.
Transco did have an issue with the HSE's demands for CORGI registration a while back, I don't know what the outcome of that was. I think that they wanted their internal training and certification to be recognised as a legal competency and were therefore challenging CORGI's monopoly.
The bottom line is that if you decide to do your own gas work on your own installation in your own residence then you'd better be damned sure about your competency to do such work. If anything goes wrong, it's a good probabililty that you will come under pretty severe scrutiny, and in that case your whole planning, installation, adherence to regulations and manufacturers instructions, commissioning procedures, etc will have to be to the highest standards.
Oh, and check your insurance to make sure they haven't put any clauses in over and above the statutory requirements....
-- Richard Sampson
email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
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is.
AFFTTWC agree though?
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wrote:

It may be deemed by Potterton that that is the case, but the law does not support their definition of competency in the general case.
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1998/98245102.htm#3
In the particular case of work and maintenance in rented accomodation, the landlord must use a CORGI registered person.
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1998/98245104.htm#36
.andy
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snip
I had training to work with the most dangerous gas of all, oxygen and I didn't have a certificate. I also had to install oxygen in an oil rich environment, still with no certificate.
Though I have no gas flue experience, does this mean that I don't come up to scratch on gas pipe installation? I can check for minute leaks and find them, due, in the main, to my oxygen experience.
On the other hand, try working with liquid oxygen (LOX), now that does tighten certain sinews in the lower abdomen :-(
Dave
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On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:48:42 +0000, BJ wrote:

Depends on what the installation was like. If he had pre written most of the forms, the installation was very simple - say just a hob and the meter. The perhaps he could get out in 15 minutes, maybe. No way if the installation has an older boiler or a gas fire.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
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Thanks everyone: There is only one appliance, the central heating boiler. I'd rather not "grass up" the plumber I chose since the landlord's plumber was a wally. If in his one hour last year he had a problem he did not mention it. He charged the same both years, 40. Re: Penalties for messing with your own domestic gas even if it's your own. Surely the reason why regs are so stringent for gas is that mistakes may impinge on your neighbours more than other DIY. (For impinge read BOOM!!)
Funny Smell
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On 28 Nov 2003 05:54:33 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@clara.co.uk (BJ) wrote:

Take a look at the statutory instrument. The requirement is to use a "member of the class of persons" for landlord's checks and any self employed or employed person working with gas (i.e. professionally) must also be a member.
Barring these specifics, the only requirement is to be competent. The SI does not define that. Even the HSE does not rise above the parapet, but acknowledges that DIY gas work does take place. Take a look on their web site at some of the committee work on gas safety. Whether they condone it or not is another matter, but in these various committees they basically accept that the law does not prevent DIY gas work, and the rate of problems does not justify a change to the law. Pragmatically they accept that it would be likely to be unenforceable anyway.
However, if something did go wrong following DIY gas work, I am sure that a competence test would be applied, and can see no reason why that would be any different to the requirements for CORGI membership. In other words, the work must be to a level of competence at or exceeding the training and certification for professionals.
There is a natural point to make which is that one is going to be very careful in one's home anyway. Equally, there is no absolute guarantee that work done by a CORGI member will be fault free. For example, it is possible that a connection is made using some form of screw fitting and it is just left finger tight. It might well not leak initially and even pass a soundness test, and then give problems later. We have had such cases here.
So we are left with a periphery of people doing DIY gas work who have no clue what they are doing and manage to endanger themselves and others. No legislation would prevent that and there is no evidence of it happening to any extent in practice anyway.
Secondly we have the cowboy "professionals" who work on an unregistered basis. When they are caught through some form of problem, they are prosecuted.
Then we have professional registered installers, who in the majority of cases I am sure do a decent job. Again there is little or no evidence to suggest otherwise. They have indemnity insurance which will cover them if things go badly wrong.
Finally, the competent DIYer. Again there is little evidence that this is a problem in practice, probably due to a relatively low rate of activity in the first place coupled with competent work.
So ultimately we are talking about a risk situation which for competent DIY gas work is extremely small. However there is a small but finite risk of a problem, and the consequences could be severe if it were demonstrated that it was the result of incompetence.
As in anything else, the individual must decide on the risk/reward aspect.
.andy
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