Gas pipe

[Andy Hall]

Not according to the law it isn't.... The requirement is to be competent. (Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations).

If one is doing gas fitting for reward, then there is a requirement for the individual or company to be a member of a class of persons designated by the HSE. Currently, the HSE requires this to be CORGI membership.

The regulations were written following celebrated events such as Ronan Point where cowboy fitters caused a major explosion, and to a reasonable extent has achieved its aims.

If you look at the HSE web site, there is a section on gas safety where there are discussions about whether or not DIY gas work is an issue and should be banned. The conclusion has consistently been that it isn't an issue and that doing so is impractical anyway.

Obviously for most people, the sensible answer is to employ a registered gas fitter. However, this is no guarantee that the outcome will be good quality work. AIUI, CORGI only inspects about 2% of installations, so unless the customer complains, there is not much supervision.

One also has to consider that a DIYer competent to do his own work has more skin in the game than a fitter in that if he screws up, he is going to run the risk of blowing himself up.

That would be a matter for the HSE, most likely.

However, you are either assuming that a DIY installation is automatically bad and a professional one is good (which is not really justifiable); or you prefer to take a conservative view and have the responsibility for a situation pushed in the direction of the fitter and his insurers. There's nothing wrong with that, except that everybody has their own views of how much or little risk they wish to take.

[ben]

Let's cut the crap and confusion here, GAS installation should be banned from the DIY fraternity, end of.

[Andy]

Both I and my brother have installed gas boilers/combis in our own homes. We considered ourselves 'competent' if not so at the start of the job, then certainly by the end when we'd ironed out any little problems ( all jobs have unexpected problems associated with them, so no, that does not prove my incompetence! )

I would say that anyone doing such a job needs to have some mechanical/ electrical aptitude/experience, and also the ability to do the necessary research, and the patience to do the necessary tests.

My only installation problem was a drying leak caused by being a smart-arse and trying to use end-feed fittings with a mild flux, not realisng that the inside of the fitting needed cleaning, as well as the pipe it was going on.

This newsgroup has been invaluable as a source of advice. Remember that the people who come on here and ask what might appear to be naive questions are at least trying to do it right. You want to be worried about the people who never ask anyone and just steam headlong into a job. They wo't worry about the regs anyway.

Andy.

[Mr Fizzion]

Yes and we should ban chip pans since some people still attempt to throw water at them when they catch fire.

Mr F.

[Dave Fawthrop]

| Chances are the child would survive an electrical shock.. gas explosion I | think not.

Actually people survive gas explosions quite regularly. You regularly hear on the Box, the house was demolished but the occupants walked out with minor injuries.

Not sure why, and I am *not* volunteering to be a test subject ;-)

[ben]

That the best you can come up with?

Ho hum!

[Andy Hall]

There's no confusion whatsoever. If you don't wish to do your own DIY gas work, that's your choice. It really isn't for you to dictate what others should and shouldn't do.

There are two reasons that a ban has not been done:

1) There is no reason in terms of reduction in problems to justify doing so.

2) It is impossible to implement.

Given those facts, the HSE has taken the view that this is a non-issue.

[Rob Morley]

Car maintenance? Lots of things on a car could cause a serious accident if not done properly.

[david lang]

Or you could drown from faulty DIY plunbing work..........

Dave

[david lang]

But that raises the question of 'should these people be allowed to dilute the gene pool'

Dave

[david lang]

Wahoo! Sense at last! Gas fitting in general is no different from plumbing in water.

Dave

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I work in TV, pet, and know full well that they'll use every trick in the book to avoid reality.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Then what are you doing on a DIY group? Trying to drum up business?

[Owain]

More likely if pro installed, as a DIYer would be more likely to be aware of the need for maintenance

A DIYer would be more likely to have leak detector and to follow up any gassy smell; an unaware person might wait for the smell to go away, especially if an intermittent fault.

Offset to some degree by (1)

A DIYer should known where his own pipes are.

Looks like DIY wins. However, modern electrical products and installations are usually well protected by RCD/MCB and very tolerant of less than best practice. Gas is less tolerant and can make very big messy bangs.

Owain

[Owain]

It's worthwhile to have an understanding of what and how something is to be done even if one pays a pro to actually do it, then one is in a better position to not be ripped off with unneccessary work, and to spot the (hopefully rare) CORGI who misses something safety-critical.

Surgeons give patients informative little leaflets about "Your Frontal Lobotomy" - it's not encouraging the patients to try DIY[1]

Owain

[1] And in the case of "You're Going To Hospital For IVF" presumably the patients have already been trying themselves without success.

[Owain]

Didn't stop Part P though.

Owain

[Andy Hall]

True - however there's a different situation.

Part P largely came about because of the lobbying by commercially interested parties such as the ECA, NICEIC and others even though it would bring into existence numerous providers of Competent Persons Schemes. Nevertheless, NICEIC remains the largest player and has the "brand" recognition, at least for the moment.

In the area of gas, although there have periodically been discussions by the HSE about having competition to CORGI, this has never really gone anywhere.

has been moderately successful at convincing Joe Public that DIY gas work is illegal (actually they say "likely to be illegal" but don't have the backing in law to say that it actually is). Given those situations, plus the points mentioned above, there does not appear to be significant commercial or political impetus to implement a direct change to legislation.

However, there may be a back door to this through the Home Information Pack nonsense.

[<me9]

A gas explosion propogates fairly slowly, causing a mild overpressure over the area of the walls, blowing them gently apart,allowing the roof to collapse. High explosives, or the 'mixtures' used by terrorists explode much more rapidly, giving a completely different form of damage, due to the higher and more rapid pressure wave.

So if you aren't squashed by the collapsing building, or hit by the windows shooting past, you will be likely to escape hairless and deaf.

[DJC]

But will Home Info Packs be enforcable? In the sense that nobody but a fool would trust a vendors survey and if its the right place at the right price someone will buy it regardless of the technicalities noted by their solicitor.

Factor in that by the time this is introduced there is likely to be an economic downturn and consequently a poor prospect for the housing market (and a government thinking about the next election). So either it gets delayed or estate agents desperate for business will offer something like 'Free Sellers Pack' which then being done in the most nominal low cost way possible will finally reduce it to irrelevance.

[Andy Hall]

WHo knows? The suggestion is that a vendor will have to provide one.

However, I agree with you that the notion is fundamentally flawed commercially because as a buyer, I would want to satisfy myself of the situation. Whatever the apparent level of legal safeguard, the fact of the seller paying nullifies the value as far as I am concerned - it's an obvious conflict of interest.

I also agree here as well. If it becomes a buyer's market, then the vendor will have to absorb the cost. I can also envisage a market for worthless, absolute minimum legal requirement packs for a fixed price.

In other words, typical nanny state nonsense.