Gas Leak following New Heating Installation

[robert.haynes]

Hello,

I'm interested in what an appropriate response might be to the following.

Our new central heating sytstem was finished on Friday, and everything appeared to be working fine.

On Saturday morning we noticed a slight smell of gas in our bedroom (the new gas suppply pipe passes under the floor and up the wall on it's way to the boiler).

I looked at the gas meeter, and noiticed that gas was flowing (albeit very slowly), even when nothing was in use.

So I called the installers and an engineer was duly sent on site.

He discovered a small gas leak in the pipe under the floorboards, which he duly fixed.

I feel pretty annoyed about this, but in the interests of being a resonable kind of person, I'm not sure what an appropriate response should be.

Is this "just one of those things" or should I go and register a CORGI complaint etc?

Thanks

Robert Haynes.

[Ian Stirling]

Do you know if a pressure test was conducted on the gas pipework before they left? If not, then it's certainly their fault, and they are not anywhere close to best practice. How rapidly did they respond to the leak, and did they give appropriate advice "turn off at the meter" ?

[Andy Hall]

Definitely. Did you see what he did to fix the problem? Was it to re-solder a joint on the pipe, or perhaps even to solder it in the first place?

It is a requirement after the installation of new work to do a gas soundness test. This consists of

-turning off all the appliances at their isolating valves,

-turning off the main valve,

-connecting a manometer (gauge with water or electronic tester) to a nipple at the meter

-pressurising the system by turning on the main valve to bring the pressure up to normal range and shutting off valve

-watching to see if there is any drop in pressure over a given time

With some meter types, a small drop is allowed, but if you could see the meter running at all and smell gas, then something wasn't done properly. It could be that the guy put the fittings together with flux and forgot to solder, but that would be pretty incompetent.

Probably, getting the truth as to what actually happened will be impossible now, but I would definitely call CORGI and ask for somebody else to look at the installation.

[robert.haynes]

The leak was fixed by resoldering a joint, as far as I can tell. The leak weas around an awkward bend to route the gas around some of the heating supply pipes.

I'm surprised that we haven't heard from the company today.

[ski]

It is possible for the flux to fill the gap on the joint so that the pressure test shows no problem and even inspecting the joint does not show a problem. The fact that they called out to put it right was a plus as some installers would not even return the call. Is it really necessary to go to the trouble of calling CORGI ? would it make you feel better? Its all well and good for people to say yes involve CORGI, HSE etc but the problem is fixed and surely you must have more important things to do.

[Ed Sirett]

But only with the existing appliances connected and _no smell of gas_ and not for pipework at all let alone new pipe work.

[MM]

What might have happened if you had already planned to leave on Friday night for a long weekend with relatives? A whole weekend, or longer, of gas seepage? Wow.

MM

[MM]

And what about potential problems elsewhere in the installation?

MM

[Bob Mannix]

It's not the fact there was a leaky joint you should complain about (everyone makes mistakes). Given you noticed the smell the next morning, this indicates the leak was there from the start and they must have failed to do a proper leak test on the installed system - this is Very Bad. The leak test is there to ensure that inadvertent errors are picked up.

[Tony Bryer]

As has already been said, I'm not sure that this proves that a soundness test was not done. We had a central heating system installed in a rented flat which ran fine for a month then suddenly lost all its pressure (and left the ceiling below very damp). On investigation it was a fluxed but not soldered joint, but this had held up to >1 bar pressure for the period.

[[news]]

it's called a *drop test*

occasionally yo get an initial reading that's ok, fine and dandy. then the customer reports a smell of gas, you go back, do another drop test and lo and behold there's a leak. ski summed it up nicely, everyone else pontificating about it probably hasn't actually done 'it' in the field, so to speak.

RT

[Mr Jingles]

Just to be a pedantic , Its not called Soundness testing now its a "Tightness Test

-- Mr Jingles

[Andy Hall]

Possibly true, but it's pretty careless to not solder up a joint, and begs the question of what else might have been neglected....

[Andy Hall]

You mean forgotten to solder a joint?

Come on. That's careless, and there's no excuse for it.

[[news]]

perhaps just one mil of one joint didn't solder. the bloke came back and sorted it.

you're attempting to gain some sort of leverage out of it ?

tell me, what do you do for a living, have you /ever/ installaed a CH system, have you ever done a drop test, do you even own a maonometer ?

RT

[B Thumbs]

The worst gas leak I had was when BG pronounced my meter faulty (the house had been empty for 6 months) and insisted on changing the meter (whilst I was out) The fibre washer on the meter connection was fractured, resulting in a knockout smell of gas when I returned. Obviously no pressure test had been done.

[Andy Hall]

The issue shouldn't have arisen in the first place. Everybody can make mistakes, that's understood, but this one is just careless. Sometimes it's necessary when doing pipework to have several fittings prepared, fluxed and assembled and then to make all joints together with the blow torch - however if that is done, then even more care should be taken. If joints are being made individually, then each should be heated and completed.

Perhaps the guy wasn't concentrating, was tired, hungover or had had a row with the wife - who knows. If he wasn't able to do the job properly then he shouldn't have been at work. THe consequences are too serious.

We are told by CORGI about their members being all about "gas in safe hands". Fine - I am sure that in almost all cases it is.

However, here something has gone seriously wrong. If they want to be policeman of the industry then they should be asked to do their job and find out what went wrong so that the chances of it happening elsewhere are reduced. Clearly they can't inspect every piece of work that every fitter does, and most only have a few pieces inspected per year, but when something like this happens, it should trigger an investigation of the particular job involved and perhaps of a few more done by that particular fitter.

There's no point in having a policing and inspection scheme if it isn't used.

I'm an engineer.

Yes, several.

Of course. I also do one at least once a year when the boiler is serviced as a commonsense safety check.

Yes, a water one and a digital one.

I also have a flue gas analyser.

Your next question was?

[MM]

In my view, this is just the kind of 'suck it and see' attitude that gives Britain such a bad name where tradesmen are concerned and allows those TV proggies to be made where cowboys are caught out.

Any doubt where gas is concerned (ever seen a street after a gas explosion?) is one doubt too many.

MM

[Bob Mannix]

Well I said "indicate" not "prove". Also the leak was detected within 12 hours not one month.

There may be occasions where the leak test is passed and a leak then immediately starts, if so, yes it's one of those things and they come back and fix it and it doesn't indicate a cowboy. I felt in this case there was a distinct possibility that the leak test hadn't been performed and that, if so, this was the crime. I have installed CH systems (aside from the gas) and had one leak, yes.

A leak test doesn't indicate safety, in any case. I had my meter moved and the leak test passed OK. The "engineer" (BG, Corgi and Bar etc) was then asked (by me) "what about the fire in the front room and air in the pipe?". "Oh, that'll be OK" he said and b*ggered off. I went to the front room, lit the fire and watched it. It promptly went out, as the air came through, then started issuing gas. Didn't affect me (other than making me cross) but the previous occupant of the house was an elderly lady who might have lit the fire and gone off to make a cupof tea. For balance, I should say that a subsequent "engineer" (BG, Corgi etc) for another job was very good.

-- Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 123 - not)

[MM]

I don't think it was a serious question, but an attempt to win back some 'face' in the knowledge that this practice is unconscionable, but not having the bottle to admit as much.

But this is a 'don't care', sloppy attitude that is pretty common in Britain. In Germany, where I lived for many years, all tradesman have to have recognised qualifications. Many kids leaving school there but not wanting to go to university take up an apprenticeship (Lehre) and the German government and German industry are totally geared up for this further education alternative.

In Britain? Well, I know the government is trying to reintroduce apprenticeships, but are they equivalent to the seven years I did or the five years many other hundreds of thousands of lads in the 1950s and 60s completed? I have to wonder about that.

Perhaps this lack of professionalism lies at the heart of Rover's troubles, coupled with short-termism by businesses which simply refuse to invest in the future in preference to creaming off profit right now. Quality workmanship in this country can go hang. But it's the only thing we have to offer, since third-world productivity will always beat us on cost. Britain is capable of producing goods and services of the highest quality, if only the will were there.

MM