garden steps: how to build?

[Stephen]

Hello,

I would like to build some garden steps. I typed this into google and found a couple of web sites. They recommend that the tread of each step should be 30cm x 60cm. So I thought that's good, I could buy some

30x60 slabs to use or even buy a 60x60 slab and cut it into two halves.

The web sites also said that the height of the riser should be 20cm. This is where I get confused. That's great if you need your steps to cover a height of 40cm, or any other multiple of 20, but what are the chances of that? What would you do if the height was 50cm?

I think that the risers should all be the same height, so would you divide 50 by the number of steps, say two, and make each riser 25cm?

It seems to me that that is the safest way because if one set of steps was closer together or further apart than the others, I think this could cause people to trip, so 10-20-20, or 20-20-10, or 20-30, etc I think would be dangerous. Do you agree?

I was hoping to use bricks to make the side walls and the risers but how do I solve the problem of the riser height not being a multiple of bricks high? Do I have to cut bricks half height? That sounds tricky to do.

The web sites seem to suggest you lay two courses of bricks, fill the middle with gravel and then lay a slab and then lay two more courses, fill, and lay another slab. Does this mean that you lay a whole slab all the way through the stair case and then lay two courses on top of the slab? That's the only way I can see that it would work because otherwise won't the slab be half a brick thick and not align with the next course?

Sadly the web sites lacked detailed pictures for each step, which might have helped explain what they were trying to say.

I have to cover a depth of forty something cm and my worry is that if I do two courses of brick then a slab and repeat I will get to the top and find myself either 5cm too short or 5cm proud of the lawn! Or that in order to keep the risers equal heights I will not be able to use two courses but will need two and a third bricks or something like that! Help!

Thanks, Stephen.

[John Williamson]

All steps should be equal in height. 15-25cm is acceptable for a garden step.

No cutting, you dig a hole, put a footing in at about the right level and set the top of the bricks at the level you want. You can adjust the exact height by varying the thickness of the lowest mortar bed.

Build a framework of brick walls on solid footings with the top of the frame the thickness of the slabs plus a mortar bed below the levels you want, then cut and lay slabs to fit. It's easier to do than explain.

You build stepped walls at the sides, and link these with cross walls to form the risers. If the bottoms of the side walls are concealed under the local ground level, then you can adjust the heights by varying the thickness of mortar on the bottom course(s). If you can't make the exact levels you want, then a *slight* slope on the top and bottom paving slabs will help drain water away and match levels.

Each course of bricks is about 75mm, if you include the mortar, so 45cm is six courses, and could be made as 3 steps of 150mm or 2 steps of

225mm quite easily. Mortar joints in brickwork are normally 10mm thick, but can vary from 5 to 15 if they're not in view, giving 70 - 80mm as the height of your first course or two.

[Stephen]

I think this is the problem for a novice like me: you have to use the bottom layer of mortar to determine the height of the top row of bricks. This means I won't know until I get to the top whether I have judged it right or not. I know you mentioned calculating it based on the height of bricks and that sounds good in theory but I worry that in practice, I may find I get to the top and have to demolish it and start again!

So rather than have the riser 30cm, cut the slab to fit the bricks, so if the bricks stick out 33cm or 27cm, cut the riser to fit the brickwork, not the other way round?

I'll give it a go. I haven't mixed loads of mortar before. Would 5 sand:1 cement be right? Is it worth adding some plasticiser so I could mix fewer big batches, rather than many small ones?

Thanks, Stephen.

[John Williamson]

It's not an exact science, and plus or minus 6mm is pretty good going. I'd recommend drawing it out to scale first, so you know what you're building. You need, in effect, a trench round the edge of where the steps are going top be, and trenches where you're going to build the risers with either compacted stone or a concrete footing in them, with the tops at the right levels, then build the edges and risers on top of those. Then bed the slabs on top of the walls.

Starting at the top, dig a hole, and measure down to the level you want, that's the level of the top of the footings. Dig another 150mm or so, fill the 150mm with conecrete, then start building up from that.

The bottom riser will stick up either 100mm or 175mm above the bottom paving level, with the top of subsequent risers either 150 or 225 mm above the previous one. You'll end up with a grid of walls with the tops at the right levels to take the slabs. Then you cut the slabs to fit the space available.

Plasticiser will make it easier to work, but won't affect the setting time much. You'll get a good few minutes of working time, though, depending on temperature. If you use 5 of soft sand to 1 of cement, then it'll be fairly easy to chip off later if you need to have another go.

Good pictures here:-

have saved me a good few minutes with a drafting machine and a scanner.

[Tabby]

Steps must always be exactly the same height. How you build it up to the height you can do any way you please, I cant see any reason to get hung up about it. If you use bricks, pick frostproof ones.

3:1 is better.

NT

[geraldthehamster]

Is there another way to dig a hole?

Cheers Richard

[John Williamson]

I've been known to start digging at the bottom of the slope...

[Steven Campbell]

The Paving Expert site has some advice on steps that might help

[sm_jamieson]

Mark out the levels on a stick, starting at the top and working down. Then use the markings on the stick to build up from the bottom. Thats the traditional way and avoid the problem of getting the top at the correct level.

Not sure what you mean, but the "riser" will usually be a 2 or 3 rows of bricks. The slab will usually project slightly beyond the front of the riser (e.g. an inch, like the "nose" of a staircase), since its easier to climb steps when you foot can go slightly under the step above.

Simon.

[Tim Streater]

Is that what bank robbers do then?

[jgharston]

If you make some spacers to represent the mortar you could lay out some bricks dry to get the layout.

JGH

[Rick Hughes]

Your rise can be whatever you want it to be, but even on a garden you want to avoid it being too high.

250mm is probably getting too high ... personally I would aim to be around 200mm 2 course of bricks (150mm) and a 50mm slab gives a good step.

Important that each rise is equal within 5mm or so, or there is a significant trip hazard. Don't make going too long, or again there is a trip hazard. minimum going = 225 ... no problem if you use the 300 slabs you suggest.

guideline on steps is 2 x rise + going = 550 to 700

Don't be tempted to go longer than 300, again a trip hazard as people will tend to take double step on each going.

Standard 'comfort' steps deemed suitable for all is 250mm going and 180mm rise

[geraldthehamster]

They do if they're starting in someone's garden. But point taken.

Cheers Richard

[Stephen]

Sorry, I didn't read it before sending. I meant to say "tread" not "riser".

[sm_jamieson]

I'd tend to try to find some slabs near the size of the treads I needed and build the brickwork to fit this (allowing a "nose" at the front of the tread). But if working in fixed dimensions obviously cutting may be needed. I'd try to have an cuts at the "back" of the tread, so you have properly finished front and sides. Square slabs cut in half may work well. York stone slabs and reclaimed bricks would look nice. Ah, there's another project idea ;-) Simon.

[Stephen]

Hello,

Just to let you know I managed to build it over the bank holiday weekend. Thanks for everyone's help.

I did something like that on the paving expert site:

above the "breaching the damp course" section, where it shows slabs on top of a brick wall.

After some calculation as described here, I managed to lay a concrete base just the right thickness that the bricks finished at just the right height to make the top step level with the lawn.

Unfortunately one step was too low if on one course of bricks and too high if on another course, so I cut a brick in half with an angle grinder and laid a course of half-thickness bricks, which made the step just the right height.

Is cutting bricks in half a bodge? I've never seen it done before but I guess that when designing houses, they specify windows and doors etc. a height that matches an integer number of brick courses to avoid this?

Thanks again, Stephen.

[Stephen]

That's exactly what I did. I cut some 600mmx600mm slabs into 600x300 and put the cut edge at the back. I used a 230mm angle grinder. It was a silverline diamond disc that IIRC I bought from Amazon. Although there was a decent thickness of diamond left from last time I used it, it was really difficult to cut. I changed the blade for another cheapie, this time from Aldi, and it cut like a knife through butter.

I think I remember someone saying that if the blade gets too hot the glue melts and the diamonds sink into the adhesive, or something like that. Perhaps that's what happened to the silverline one. Is there a way to restore it, or should it go in the bin?

Should the disc be withdrawn from the slab now and again to cool it? I would have thought that you would get a neater line if you keep the disc in the slab until the end. Is the trick not to force the disc so that it does not get too hot in the first place?

Thanks, Stephen.

[Stephen]

But wouldn't you then have a rise and fall in your lawn near the step? I suppose that would not matter as long as you did not want a bowling green finish.