Yes. However I need the freezer so I'm keeping it.
Yes. FRIDGE-freezers do seem to be a problem. I've been talking to two people today who have had them fail in their garages.
There seems to be a list of possible problems from failure to start in the cold to the door seal plastic deteriorating. I'm going to run it for a while the heat turned up until the weather warms. Next winter I'll have to think again.
Thanks
Edgar
I had never given it a thought, until I noticed it in the various charts!
Sheila
I've just been looking at specs for this Frigidaire FVE2199b on the net but haven't found a mention of the ambient requirement yet.
What do you do about it? Keep the kitchen that warm all the time? At least your breadmaker won't need pre-heating.
Edgar
In this case, what rights? The product was suitable for the purpose for which it was sold, as a kitchen freezer, even if that was not the purpose for which it was bought. The supplier has already exceeded their legal duty by agreeing to accept the product back, less a handling fee.
Colin Bignell
No.
A straw poll at work today suggests that quite a few people know there is a reason not to use freezers outside, although not necessarily what that reason might be.
I don't recall the detail.
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Unless you specifically asked whether it was suitable for use outside, it is unlikely that a Court would rule that it was unreasonable of Currys to assume that you would not be using a kitchen appliance in a kitchen.
I've never seen the point in that. It is a marginal saving at best.
...
I would think it more likely that it is a result of our move towards the compensation culture and the resulting need to give ever more warnings of things that won't affect the majority of people.
Colin Bignell
I knew this, but thought that the problem was just confined to single compressor fridge/freezers, not standalone fridges or freezers or twin-compressor fridge freezers?
AIUI the analysis something like assume external temp 15C, fridge
5C, freezer -15C, which gives temp differences of 10 and 30, so if the compartments are of equal size and insulation you put 75% of the cooling into the freezer and 25% into the fridge and each bit reaches the desired temp. But if the outside drops to 5C then the fridge cannot get any warmer than this so the stat switches off and the freezer part gradually defrosts. So why not let the stat measure the freezer temp and let the fridge take its chances?snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > My kitchen easily drops below 16C everyday (at the moment) and the
My kitchen also falls below 16 overnight at this time of year (the lowest I've seen was 10, first thing in the morning). No problem for the fridge freezer, though for extended periods it might be (very little heat finding its way into the fridge compared to the freezer so the compressor doesn't run for long enough).
We bought a freezer for use in the (detached) garage just before Christmas - just a cheap upright (Beko/LG - I can't remember which one we went for in the end) and it's been fine, even when the temp barely got above freezing for a few days (I could hear it running perfectly normally).
The fridge and freezers I have were both rated for temperatures below 10C. I have an extra fridge-freezer which lives in the utility room - it's only used for overflow, when entertaining. The utility room isn't heated (it's a passageway between the house and the garage), but when I'm using the extra fridge in very cold weather, I leave the door into the back hallway open.
I don't use a breadmaker. When it's cold in the kitchen, I just leave the bread to rise, covered, in the airing cupboard.
Sheila
No. It wasn't suitable for the purpose of a freezer for my kitchen.
A freezer that needs a minimum ambient temperature of 16C is not necessarily suitable for use in an English kitchen, which may be expected to go below this temperature when people are on holiday and at other times too. They should have informed me it was subject to ambient temperature restrictions before the sale. In this case they did not, either in the shop or on their web site. As far as I can see even the manufacturers web site doesn't tell me of this restriction. I was only able to find out when I opened the door and took out the instruction booklet.
However I expect other shed retailers would have been no more forthcoming about this.
Currys behaved quite reasonably except that I'd dispute the "handling charge".
On this occasion we're not going to discover the answer as I have accepted the freezer because I need it now and can find ways to overcome the problem.
Edgar
One person I talked to this afternoon knew of the problem because her sister and daughter both had fridge/freezers in their garages fail with expensive results.
Shame. It's those kind of details I want to hear about so that I can avoid problems.
Kitchens themselves often have temperatures below 16C. Mine does. I should have been informed of this restriction because the freezer is not even suitable for my kitchen.
Maybe. Not your house though.
There may be something in that but having put the restriction in the instruction booklet they should have informed the customer before sale.
Edgar
Thanks Sheila.
You do seem to have been rather wiser than me. May I ask what make and type the fridge and freezer are and if you had to go to any special efforts to find them? Presumably they are class SN machines rather than the N than mine is. It'll be useful information for when this one packs up, and for our fridge and freezer in the kitchen which are on their last legs.
It seems to me the fridge-freezers are the real problem because of the way they work. They seem to fail quite expensively if they run (or fail to run) long in a too cold place. I've been hearing about such disasters this afternoon and am now quite determined never to buy a fridge-freezer unless it has separate mechanisms for the two parts.
I remember making bread in the late seventies when there was a bakers strike or something of the kind. I had a Raeburn in those days and really enjoyed taking the finished cottage loaves to my elderly neighbour who had been worried that he'd miss his bread. I'd never made bread before, or since. I was quite proud of myself.
Edgar
It was a number of years ago - late 1997/early 1998. They're Hotpoints, a matched pair, undercounter height. I don't remember the model numbers, but I doubt if they're still available. So far (touch wood) they've been completely reliable, even with the frequent power outages we've had. One was bought from Scottish HydroElectric, and I think the other was from Curry's - not exactly specialty suppliers. But I did a LOT of research before ordering them.
That was one of the reasons I bought two separate units - the other was the need for counter space.
I make bread several times a week - it still seems almost magical to me, and I've been doing it for at least 30 years.
Sheila
It would be judged against the kitchen of the man on the Clapham Omnibus, not yours.
I think that is probably not a representative expectation. People do not, as a rule, take prolonged holidays in winter and have their heating turned down when they do.
Colin Bignell
We bought our last freezer about 14 years ago. It was a Hotpoint from the local electricity company shop, where we were talked through the displayed models. In the end the choice was determined, as in this recent purchase, by size and the need to get it quickly (the previous Electrolux had a failed motor after 14 years). The Hotpoint still looks good and works, but a couple of weeks ago I found there was a solid block of ice under the machine. I defrosted it until the ice was gone and put it back into use but I wasn't able to dry out the case fully so ice soon started to build up again. It's likely ice has been building up over a long period. Colder temperatures outside the case will encourage ice build up if moisture can get in and that could be one reason for the new environmental requirements.
I'm going to try to mend the Hotpoint once the contents are rehoused. Silly thing to do really but I'll enjoy trying and if I'm successful in fitting suitable new insulation I intend to switch to the old machine from time to time to allow a long defrost period for the new one. That might help reduce the moisture build up in the case.
I think one lesson I'm learning from all this is that after about 10 years of use we should start to consider changing our fridge and freezers before anything goes wrong. That would allow time to do some preliminary investigation and selection. It would also give us the opportunity to change both kitchen machines at the same time and get a matching pair.
Edgar
This is a common problem with the freezers built just after CFC expanded foams ceased being used. The Hotpoints use a matting insulation which isn't waterproof, and rely on just a waterproof outer layer. This is not a perfect seal, and over the years moisture gets in, freezes and the insulation becomes bridged with ice.
I've repaired two Hotpoint freezers which have done this -- one was OK, the other wasn't. I removed all the insulation from the bottom (takes a while as you have to wait for the ice to melt; I used a hairdrier as I was in a hurry -- contents of freezer wrapped in sleeping bags in the dining room;-) There's a heater wire around the edge of the door -- be careful not to damage that. Then I replaced the insulation with the airosol foam spray. Take note of what it says on the tin about doubling in size -- I didn't quite believe it and ended up with the foam expanding such that unless you extend the freezer feet to maximum height, it now sits on the foam bottom;-)
One of the units was a 6' fridge/freezer. I did this by laying the unit on it's side, although the top was supported on a step so it wasn't quite horizontal. When finished, I stood the freezer upright for a couple of hours before switching on to allow the refrigerent and oil to settle. The unit lasted another 5 years before the same thing happened again through my replacement foam. (I was expecting the expanded foan to be closed cell, but it clearly wasn't.)
The other unit was a worktop height freezer. I turned this upside down which made replacing the insulation easier. However, it never recovered from this. This freezer was not being used at the time, so I left it a couple of days before switching on. At switchon, it did start getting cold. 10 minutes later, I returned to find it had blown its fuse. Replaced the fuse and it started working again, but did the same. Compressor was very hot. Replaced fuse and measured power consumption -- IIRC, it was about 4kW running. I spoke with an engineer at Hotpoint who suspected the expansion jet would have waxed up and the compressor then over- heated and motor windings fused. It was too late for this one, but his suggestion if a freezer has got really shaken up was to switch it on for a minute only with the door open and then leave it to warm up for 5 minutes. Repeat this cycle for a an hour or so, and then when finally switching on to leave it on, carefully monitor the refrigerant flow to make sure it doesn't get blocked until the freezer gets down to right temperature and compressor cuts off normally.
It was a brilliant piece of built-in obsolescence. Actually for fridges and freezers, it is not my experience that they are likely to go wrong suddenly and without warning any more often when they're old than when they're new as their mechanical parts (compressors) seem to go on forever, providing you avoid the more complex and less reliable frost-free ones.
Hi,
Why not phone Frigidaire up and ask them? I wonder if the compressor oil on modern freezers may get too thick at low temps.
Also try the forums at , they should have some helpful advice.
cheers, Pete.
Yes, that is the problem. The matting is drenched and the foil is torn and holed all over the bottom part but higher up it still looks ok. It wasn't getting condensation on the outside high up so I think the upper parts are probably OK.
The new freezer now holds the contents so no problem there.
The old one is in the garden dripping and I won't do anything to it for a few days to give it a chance to fully thaw. Then I'll bring it in and warm it up to dry out the insulation for a few more days. After that I'm not sure how I'll proceed.
I've thought of using that foam spray. I've used it and stuff like it in the past for other things and it can be very good indeed if you never want to remove it again. (One type (Clocell I think) that I used long ago would disintegrate with meths but it took a lot - in that case the foam was a kind of packing for electronic components so cutting it away with a knife was no good.)
My other idea is just to shove a lot more fibre stuff in and seal it with plastic sheet and tape. The advantage being it could easily be stripped out if the problem recurs. It's unlikely to recur though as I only intend to use this machine very occasionally. So it'll have plenty of time to thaw and dry out after use.
Can you not cut the excess off with a bread knife.
If it's not closed cell it'll need an outer sealing film of some sort. Long ago there was some ex-military stuff that was excellent for waterproofing car ignitions. It painted on and dried to a kind of plastic/rubber(?) film so that everything looked encased in a rubber glove. I wonder if there is anything like that now.
That's a shame. Was the freezer cold - as in below a normal room temperature? I was under the impression that if the whole unit was kept for a few days in a warmish environment the fluid should settle and work properly when switched on.
Andrew that was really useful information. I'll keep a copy handy when I'm working on it. Thanks. I've seem some of your earlier posts about this and it was partly those which decided me to keep and try to mend this freezer.
Edgar
Of course you are right - I should. Thanks.
Edgar
nightjar a rule, take prolonged holidays in winter and have their heating turned down
Not so. Many retired/self employed/seasonal working people take long holidays over the winter months. Some like me, turn down the heating to a reasonable 50F, 10C or lower. Many houses without central heating will drop to below this temperature overnight. A product which won't run at temperatures around freezing point is IMO unfit for purpose. I suppose that this justifies the use of absorption fridges in boats and caravans!
Regards Capitol
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