Free Energy - have you done this ?

That is why superinsulation (less need for a heating system in the first place) and very low temp UFH heating fed from a large thermal store is probably the best approach. A large solar array can generate lots of low temp heat, even in winter. Enough for 4-5 cloudy days. The low temperature stored water can pre-heat the DHW.

You need to store heat for low or no wind days; back to a large thermal store.

But expensive.

Low temperature UFH runS between 30-45C. Solar panels will generate that in winter. Remember of superinsulating the heat demands will be minimal. The problem is high temperayre water for FDHW. In winter on bright sunny days solar pabels can reach 50C and above. This hot water should be directed to a separate cylindner for day use (this DHW can be topped up with an immersion heater), not blended into a large low temp thermal store. The day cylinder is pre-heated by the water in the main thermal store. In summer the whole of the large thermal store can be over 90C (store as much heat as possible), and when the heating season kicks in you have enough heat stored to keep you going for while, and the solar panels will be contributing most of the time.

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will give you an idea. The solar array and thermal store has to be sized to suit of course.

This guy has an array on a frame. Quite interesting, but I would not do it exactly like he has done his floor.

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In summer you don't need

The wind genny would have to be quite large to power a heat pump. The heat pump would need to extracting heat from a stable hot source (a river or deep under ground). Then it would all have to be sized up in relation your house and its heat loss.

A solar array, large water thermal store, very low temp UFH is the best approach, and far more cost effective. Remember you have 60 amps, so electricity can be used although in minimal amounts.

Reply to
IMM
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Superinsulate it. 350-400mm in the roof/loft, 25-300mm in the walls. using Kingspan or Warmcell spay-in cellulous can reduce the width of the insulation.

Reply to
IMM

???

??

UFH and the heat bank size has nothing to do with it. It is the heat demand of the house that determines. You work backwards.

That means a "very" large thermal store and a hot DHW day cylinder.

Reply to
IMM

I think before doing this you will need a good understanding of the whole subject. Water turbines need a head, and permission to install. Wind turbines have significant issues esp in terms of planning permission and cost.

These energy sources are not free, they are thoroughly expensive.

A heat exchanger running on mains electric would most likely do the job, I say most likely because I have none of your numbers to hand. Mains will be far cheaper than windmill power.

One option that must be asked about first is solar. If theres any way to get it working it is likely to be the cheapest option - as long as its designed properly. So, how far away from your property must you move to get lots of sun? Ducting is neither difficult nor expensive.

The other question is insulation: it is often cheaper to add more insulation. A 60A supply should be more than enough to heat a house when well insulated. Have you done the power requirement calculations?

Suggest crossposting this to alt.solar.thermal too.

Regards, NT

Reply to
N. Thornton

B*llocks, i`d just done a nice response to this when my machine crashed and I lost it :-}

Tell her to contact the local electricity company with a voltage complaint - they have 10 days to do something about it ("substantive response" - might be an initial letter at this stage) or they`re in breach of Energywatchs` guidelines.

They should really be fitting a voltage recorder to make sure her supply is within 230v +10% -6% - and she should really be getting a copy of the results. If its outside these limits they should really be doing something about it. Ask for a time limit on how long they expect improvements to their network to take, and if it sounds unreasonable go straight to energywatch !

More info (since the Energywatch website is as friendly as a skinhead with a baseball bat) can be found via google - "guaranteed standards uk voltage complaint" should do the trick :-p

Reply to
Colin Wilson

This seems to be a fairly good link (and its 7 days, not 10...)

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They should really be fitting a voltage recorder to make sure her supply

And it looks like they should really resolve the problem within 6 months too...

Reply to
Colin Wilson

If you have your own turbine generating your own electricty driving your own heat pump stuck in your own river, there is no point in switching off the heating during the day/night to reduce running costs; so you do not need to masively over specify the space heating system to warm up in 30 minutes.

I guess that Rick's heating requirements are around 144 kWh in a winter's day, and that a 2kW heatpump might manage that.

Reply to
Nick Finnigan

In

No don't do that!! there the most wasteful power users on the planet!. Instead of faster PC's lets hope that they start making more efficient ones.

I heard the other day that a 256 Mb stick of memory uses 28 watts of power is this true?...

Reply to
tony sayer

I doubt very much they would need to do anything with the 11kV lines themselves just put a bigger transformer on the pole. Remember your full load of 60A will only be 1.2A @ 11kV so doubling the capacity of your supply would only make the 11kV current 2.4A. 11kV lines are not tiddly bits of copper, the main 3 phase line up our vally has individual copper wires approximately 1/2" dia, out single phase spure uses about 1/4" dia. So the I^2R losses are not going to be very great...

Might take a bit of phoning round to find a really small tanker but I have seen them on the back of 4x4 pickups... You are starting to get tied to that supllier though.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Aye this 1GHz Athlon is plenty fast enough for me. Can't see a nedd for 4GHz machine at all.

Instantaneous Peak maybe but not constantly you don't see big heatsinks or fans on memory yet (do you?)

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Hi,

What might be worth considering is a water-water heat pump running UFH and/or air heaters, try:

The last one has a comprehensive list of suppliers.

cheers, Pete.

Reply to
Pete C

The problem is the laws of thermodynamics. It isn't easy to raise the temperature of a fluid that much in one stage, so you need a two stage compressor for most forms of heating, though you may get away with a single stage if your underfloor system is vast and efficient.

Double stage compressors cost over £4000. And still need lots of electricity to drive them as efficiency is less than a single stage. In theory it should be possible to drive some form of compressor from a wind or water turbine but I haven't found one yet. If you do let me know as I have lots of both. Fortunately we can get oil in so we're not in such a bad situation as you sound to be in.

Reply to
G&M

Very rare to get 11kV out near many rural locations - we have a single phase at a couple of kV I believe. We then have a transformer feeding six farms and when one switches on the milker we all know about it. Also transformer is 253v at my house (second in row) to even get 220V at the end farm.

Reply to
G&M

That's exactly the equation I was faced with. A new Grant oil boiler is now happily chugging away waiting to be officially commissioned for the BCO. After 11 years at 5% interest rates and assuming oil stays at it's current quite high levels, the heat pump would have been the better choice. But at the moment the capital could be spent on other things.

Reply to
G&M

Been there - done that. They told us that in our rural location there is no possible solution as the Peak Park won't allow more overhead cabling.

Reply to
G&M

Hum, I don't think so electricity distribution is pretty standard. All the local distribution round here is at 11kV, and you can't get much more remote than us in England. Take a look at the labels on the poles the voltage may well be on there, might be better to look at ones with kit up them rather than one in the middle of a field.

So a single transformer is feeding all 6 places at 240v?

Whatever complain 253v is right on the top of the allowed tolerance and 220v at the bottom. I wonder what that 220v drops to when the milker is on or how high your 253v goes in the wee small hours when there is little load.

You mention else where that Peak Park won't allow more overhead cabling. You don't want more, as in poles and cables, you just want the existing upgraded to meet the demands placed upon it. Politely and firmly complain to the company responsible for the supply, possibly collectively and at the very least get them to put voltage loggers installed in the first and last buildings.

Then when you see the milker come on have a shower whilst putting the electric kettle on for a cup of tea and doing the tumble drying, your neighbours as well...

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Go direct to Energywatch then. Peak Park might not allow *more* but the existing network should be brought up to scratch - that may simply entail changing the overhead transformer (depending on the network layout) or upgrading part of the overhead line to a bigger cable to reduce volt drop to the remote end. This isn`t adding more, its a replacement of what is already there.

If its currently mounted on a single pole, then its probably time they fitted a larger tranny on a H pole. That isn`t more overhead cabling, its one extra pole at an existing location.

Failure to resolve this to bring it within the legal limits leaves them open to legal action.

Reply to
Colin Wilson

60A is fine for most of us. Its only when you go for electric heating or have a particularly big load that you'd need to upgrade from 60. The reason supplies now go in at 100A is to cater for the occasional one that does want more than 60.

Regards, NT

Reply to
N. Thornton

The figures the OP posted are just within the legal limits.

However if you are sitting at 253v during the day and the supply is noticeable going up and down I'd say the chances of it exceeding 253v are pretty high when demand is low. Likewise for the property at the end of the line at 220v I'd expect that to drop below 216v at times of high demand.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

They may be within limits at *his* address, but it`d be interesting to see what a voltage recorder reports for the old dear who loses her TV.

Reply to
Colin Wilson

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