Floor tiles 'popped'!

[Adrian Brentnall]

HI All We have largeish (12") floor tiles in the sunroom. There was always one by the outside door that 'clicked' when you stood on it (didn't more enough to actually see - but just to hear)

After three or four days & nights of 40mph winds (may not be relevant) I heard a noise like somebody knocking over a load of broom-handles - and now a large area (maybe 6ft square) of the tiles appear to be 'live'.

Again - not enough movement to see - but when you stand on them there's a sound like thin ice creaking....

I think I probably know the answer - but is there any alternative to lifting them up and re-laying ?

Thanks Adrian

[Tim Watts]

Adrian Brentnall ( [e-mail]) wibbled on Saturday 05 February

2011 17:59:

It sounds very much like the entire bond has sheared over that area.

Lifting the failed ones is unlikely to be a problem - relaying may be the easiest option if they are easy to clean and if the exiting adhesive can be scraped back to leave enough space for new adhesive (few mm abs min)

I wonder if they were laid on an inferior adhesive rather than a cement based one?

What is the total area?

The next question, though a bit depressing, is whether another section is waiting to fail. The wind is not relevant, but, assuming your sun room was allowed to run cold over the winter (is it closed off from the house?) it may be that after the long hard cold, the recent warmer weather has finally cracked the bond through expansion.

IIWM, I would try to scrape out the grount on one, lift it out without damage and see what has happened. Did the bond fail between adhesive bed and tile, or bed and subfloor?

This will dictate the remedials that may be possible.

[Tim Watts]

Tim Watts ( [e-mail]) wibbled on Saturday 05 February 2011 18:19:

To address this, not really.

I've reconditioned weak floor screed by soaking in SBR, but that worked because it could soak in everywhere.

You don't have the ability to soak in much from the top even if you cut the grout out.

Anything thin and penetrating like SBR would struggle to repair the very small gap that now exists between the bed and which ever bit failed.

Anything thick enough to do this, like a resin or epoxy would be impossible to get it to penetrate more than a few mm in from the grout lines.

If you were desperate enough and it were the tile-adhesive bond that failed, a serious bodge that might buy you a few years would be to cut out the grout, lift the failed tiles and araldite them back, then regrout.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Nope.

You could TRY getting thin PVA underneath..

[Adrian Brentnall]

Thanks Tim (and for the info in your other post)

_Thought_ there wouldn't be an easy fix

Job for the summer months, I think

Thanks Adrian

[Adrian Brentnall]

Yes - I wondered about that - series of strategically-drilled holes down through the grout - but it'd be a bodge

Adrian

[Tim Watts]

Adrian Brentnall ( [e-mail]) wibbled on Saturday 05 February

2011 20:15:

Not a chance in hell with a few holes. PVA doesn't penetrate very well - and I don;t even think raking out all the grout lines and doing the same would work very well, but it might keep them quiet for a couple of years +/- until the job canb be done properly.

[Tim Watts]

Adrian Brentnall ( [e-mail]) wibbled on Saturday 05 February

2011 20:11:

Just try to ignore it for now. I don't think there is much risk of walking on them, but try not to put any large loads on - might crack them.

If it is a failed DPM (which I think is unlikely unless this sun room was bodged on after the house was built) it will be hugely obvious when you get one tile up - you will feel the damp if it were bad enough to break a tile bond.

[Adrian Brentnall]

Might as well get on & do it properly, I think...

Tell you what _would_ do the job - Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure

- which (if you've not met it before) is a very thin liquid which wicks its way into ... er ... cracks - and then sets hard.....

...but it's not cheap - and I don;t really want to use up my meagre supply on bodging these tiles....

So we'll do it properly... but later in the year

Thanks Adrian

[Adrian Brentnall]

OK - I'll see what we find when I take up an exploratory tile...

Thanks Adrian

[Ericp]

Not covering a drain hatch are they? Some people building sunrooms conveniently forget inspection pits when it gets expensive to move them.

[Tim Watts]

Adrian Brentnall ( [e-mail]) wibbled on Saturday 05 February

2011 21:21:

I must look that up - intrigued...

[Tim Watts]

Ericp ( [e-mail]) wibbled on Saturday 05 February 2011 21:25:

Which would be *very* dozy of them - as you can get new frame/lid assemblies for exactly this purpose - sealed lid, recessed so that the tiles can be carried through it - all you see is the thin edge of the frame+lid junction.

But I don't doubt it happens - there are enough clueless cowboy builders around...

[Adrian Brentnall]

Good thinking - but I don't think so. The sunroom was built at the same time as the house, and the drains are at the other end of the house....

Thanks for the thought, though!

[Adrian Brentnall]

It's good stuff. Used quite extensively on my old Moggie Minor to keep the rain out of various places (window rubbers / other seams). Think its main application is marine - but all sorts of handy uses - sets clear so more or less invisible in use.

Think mine came mail-order from somebody in Norwich..?

Adrian

[Dave Liquorice]

It's been mentioned here several times before Tim...

I don't think it would work for this application though. It's for sealing leaks that are mainly down to capillary action rather than a fluid passing through an open crack IYSWIM. CTCCR would soak into the substrate but not crack/gap fill. The various "wood hardeners" woud be a cheaper source fo similar stuff but again it has very limited crack/gap filling ability.

[Andy Burns]

I've got one floor tile in the kitchen that is fully detached (that'll teach me to only half finish the grouting) the problem with chopping the adhesive out and starting again is that there is electric UFH matting buried within it.

Would soaking SBR into the existing adhesive stick it back, or would I be better off *carefully* paring back the adhesive in 4 or 5 places avoiding the heating element to allow 'dots' of an epoxy instead?

[Tim Watts]

Andy Burns ( [e-mail]) wibbled on Sunday 06 February

2011 14:27:

SBR - no. It is way too thin - although you could treat the exiting adhesive and back of the tile to get a better and stabilised surface to then araldite it back.

If you don't have SBR to hand, PVA would be an idea. I think for epoxying back, you need to stabilise the surface or the epoxy will stick to powder and probably fall off again later.

Araldite will gap fill, but press out super thin so the tile will go back flush. I would put lots of small blobs on aiming for about 30-50% area coverage - when it's pressed down you should get closer to 100% bond area.

Plastic padding or similar car body filler would probably work too.