floor reinforcement

[Angus C]

A structural survey reported a problem with floor joists for a small upstairs bedroom in extended part of a late victorian terraced house . Worse, the chimney breast had been removed from the room downstairs to give extra space, but had been left intact in the bedroom above. The floor joist timbers are standard size and sound, however they are between 40 - 48 cm apart, much wider apart than in other parts of the house. Also about half a metre of the floor in front of chimney breast in small room is filled with cement/firebrick to insulate from heat from the (now nonexistent) fireplace - presumeably quite a weight. Is it adviseable to remove chimney from upper part of house (costly), or re-inforce the floor in some way, removing the cement/firebrick insulation from the floor at same time (more affordable)? The floor does feel reasonably solid and of course there are c/h pipes and wiring to contend with also. mtia for any input angus c

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[Owain]

"Angus C" wrote | A structural survey reported a problem with floor joists for a small | upstairs bedroom in extended part of a late victorian terraced house . | Worse, the chimney breast had been removed from the room downstairs | to give extra space, but had been left intact in the bedroom above. | The floor joist timbers are standard size and sound, however they | are between 40 - 48 cm apart, much wider apart than in other parts | of the house. Also about half a metre of the floor in front of | chimney breast in small room is filled with cement/firebrick to | insulate from heat from the (now nonexistent) fireplace - | presumeably quite a weight.

That will have been the base of the hearth and is to stop cinders from the fire landing on wooden floorboards.

| Is it adviseable to remove chimney from upper part of house (costly), | or re-inforce the floor in some way, removing the cement/firebrick | insulation from the floor at same time (more affordable)?

Reinforcing the floor is really not the answer. The chimney breast structure has to be properly supported. Doing this level with the bedroom floor would probably cause a great deal of disruption to the ceiling of the room below. The best method is probably to take out the chimney breast up to the attic, and support the roof chimney structure and stack using beams or gallows brackets in the attic, where the disruption will not be noticed. The structural steelwork etc required for this should be designed by a sturctural engineer who has professional indemnity insurance and can sign off the calculations to the satisfaction of Building Control. (If the breast is in a party wall then Party Wall Act provisions will probably apply.) When you appoint a builder you should make it a condition of the contract that the work is carried out to the satisfaction of your StructE and have the StructE inspect the work.

The StructE can also advise on the floor joists, it may be that they only require some strutting or can simply be doubled up. The base of the old hearth is unlikely to be a problem in itself, and it it's flush with the floor level just hardboard over the whole floor.

Owain

[G&M]

Assuming this is a survey with a view to purchase, I'd look elsewhere.

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[Angus C]

Yeah, there's no real attic as such but maybe enough of one to do as you suggest. iirc the pots have been removed and the top sealed. Removing the chimney breast in the bedroom would indeed give more space in the room so some supports visible (or concealed?) near the ceiling may not be too much of a problem if it did the job.

So I have to tell the neighbour what's goin on ?

That means AMIStructE or MIStructE after the name right?

Many thanks for that. @ngusC

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[Owain]

"Angus C" wrote | > The best method is probably to take out the chimney breast up | > to the attic, and support the roof chimney structure and | > stack using beams or gallows brackets in the attic, where | > the disruption will not be noticed. | Yeah, there's no real attic as such but maybe enough of one to | do as you suggest.

The issue will be one of access without bringing the ceiling down; the actual steelwork won't need much height.

| iirc the pots have been removed and the top sealed. Removing the | chimney breast in the bedroom would indeed give more space in | the room so some supports visible (or concealed?) near the | ceiling may not be too much of a problem if it did the job.

Well, if it's a bedroom you might be able to arrange a run of floor-to-ceiling fitted wardrobes along that wall, which would hide any beam in its top cupboards.

| > (If the breast is in a party wall then Party Wall Act | > provisions will probably apply.) | | So I have to tell the neighbour what's goin on ?

'fraid so. Worth asking if they still use any of their chimneys because, apart from preserving the structural stability of the party wall, if they don't it might be worth considering removing the chimneys entirely and continuing the roof across.

| That means AMIStructE or MIStructE after the name right?

CEng MIStructE certainly, not sure if an AMIstructE can.

Owain

[Christian McArdle]

You could be looking a long time if you want a Victorian property. Most seem to have some gems like this lurking. Removing the upstairs chimney and supporting won't cost that much and you might even get it off the price, depending on what the market is like in the area.

Christian.