You need to design a house round heat storage, and of course that means a lot of mass in the house one way or another. Today's construction tends to be the more 'well padded cardboard' type house which warms up quickly, but cools fast as well. Ideal for people who are out all day..
Heat pumps create no heat. They transfer it from one place to another.
So they do not have an "efficiency" because no energy is converted from one form to another.
You are one of the tossers that has no idea what energy efficiency is.
You claimed to be an efficiency engineer but don't know that all the electricity put into a heat pump ends up as heat?
And they use energy to do so, energy that ends up as heat.
Bollocks.
Have you read that?
You really are clueless. Of course heat pumps create waste heat in the compressor and as resistive losses in the motor windings try touching the radiator on the back of your fridge or its motor.
A Peltier device which is amongst the purest heat pumps with no moving parts will get mad hot from internal resistive losses if you don't provide it with adequate heat sinking to dissipate the internal heat.
If you have a ground source heat pump or an air source one (not such a good idea in the UK) as they ice up in winter just when you need them for heating then the heat pump moves more heat into the house than would be obtained by a simple resistive heater of the same wattage.
Groundsource ones on a domestic scale seem to be something of a con since the ongoing maintenance costs seem to dominate any savings and you would have to be in the house 24/7 to stand any chance of breakeven.
*Everything* has a thermodynamic efficiency invariably less then 100% unless it is an ideal reversible process and they are only theoretical. Real motors have bearing friction, noise and other losses and the flow in pipes and pumps is subject to friction and turbulence.If the objective is to warm up the air then a heat pump can provide more heat out than any resistive heater. So in the naive way of looking at it the thing has a net gain on energy used to energy delivered as warm air. They work pretty well in cold dry continental climates.
But it is just a heat engine being used to do work by moving heat from a colder to a hotter body against the natural thermodynamic flow. How efficiently depends on the temperature difference between hot and cold.
I started researching into these guys as an advert popped up saying they ha ve installed in 29 000 homes. Their website seemed to make a load of false claims and then I found they have had an Advertising Standards Authority ru ling against them every year for the last 4 years. How they can be allowed to continue doing this is amazing. I guess I must be cynical as Trust Pilot has nearly 800 positive reviews from their very happy customers :-)
replying to damduck-egg, Amanda wrote: We had a salesman Gary he was here for over 2 hours! He quoted us £3750 for two radiators, with the interest it was £4233!!! We was nearly signing then I thought this is ridiculous amount to warm up one room! He then got s bit nasty and said could we not afford it!!! We are in are forties god help these old people!
replying to Martin Pentreath, Russell wrote: Martin, when you put something in the public domain you should at least have the intelligence to check your spelling and grammar? You clearly have an axe to grind? So the adverts in the back of newspapers are there simply to con old people? My own father is 86, but I do not treat him like a child because he is getting on a bit. You obviously have a thing about things being expensive, which usually means that you are a low achiever, and probably a bit skint. I have Fischer heaters in my house. They replaced old fashioned Dimplex storage heaters. The Fischer heating system is light years ahead of old fashioned storage heating, and yes it is inexpensive to run. Buying cheap is fine, if thats all that you can do? Buying German technology and engineering always pays. The two Mercedes on my drive are testament to that! Get a life Martin, better still get a job?
One should also check the date of the message concerned, by any stretch of the imagination waiting one and a half years to reply is a tad excessive.
According to the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA), who seem to have regular dealings with the peddlers of these overpriced storage heaters they seem to be there to mislead anyone, not just the elderly.
Oh dear, no wonder you are a bit embarrassed.
Their heaters are a clay block with electric heating elements, how does this put them " light years" ahead of a Dimplex heater which is a clay block with electric heating elements?
As the ASA said in one of the many complaints they have upheld about this company "we had not seen any evidence in support of the claim that the advertisers' product offered "up to 40% savings". We therefore concluded that the basis of the claim was not clear and ad (b) was likely to mislead."
From a real user : "The proof of the pudding with Fischer?s claims on efficiency is whether they are willing to defend them against evidence to the contrary. I have had a Fischer system in my flat for the last four years and am now selling the property. A requirement for selling in Scotland is that the seller has a home report and Energy Performance Certificate prepared by a RICS-approved surveyor which are made available to anyone expressing an interest in buying. The EPC I received states replacing the Fischer system (which cost almost £6000) with high heat retention storage heaters at a cost of £1600-2400 would save £1995 over three years.
I emailed Fischer with this information asking for comments and received no reply. After more emails and four telephone calls with repeated promises an engineer would call back to discuss ?when he gets back from lunch? and ?in a few minutes?, I finally received a call from a Fischer engineer who committed to speak to the surveyor. He did not."
I presume that is because Mercedes, being one of the less reliable car manufacturers, means you need a spare?
Some of us understand the engineering, ie how it works. They're just daftly overpriced low power heaters. How embarrassing for you that you were conned.
NT
Are they 'very efficient' ?.
How about more efficient than 'storage heaters' ?.
Anyone who replaces gas central heating with Fischer electric panel heaters believing that they will save money is either utterly deluded, plain stupid, easily conned, or at the age when dementia is setting in.
And the last of those four is the main 'business model' for so many companies whose sole aim seems to be to con people.
And Jeremy Corbynh. Lets not forget him
Isn't Jeremy Corbin "pick any two of the above"?
Owain
Interesting -- and it's rare that an EPC-suggested improvement offers actua l value for money!
Owain
The 2 Mercedes and the glowing testimonial suggest to me that the OP is a Fischer rep! Pass the salt :)
I always get a bit pee-ed off when an Estate Agent rolls up in an expensive car
Given the competitive nature of the market due to internet companies getting more and more involved, where is this money to pay for this car coming from?
tim
tim... explained on 08/07/2017 :
A reasonable profit on a large number of sales. Local properties to me turn over very quickly and the estate agents cars are obvious.
Are you that bad to live near to ?
G.Harman
Why? Should they not get paid for providing a service? (the fact that the online EA market has such poor completion rates suggests that its a service that is not as easy to disintermediate as many would believe)
From sale fees paid by sellers, commission payments from conveyancers, commission payments from mortgage advisors, management fees from let properties, inspection and inventory fees from landlords, referral fees from property maintenance contractors, fees from tenants (credit check, CRB, referencing etc), and probably more when you look at the fine detail.
(although before you get too carried away, the list of outgoing fees is also extensive)
replying to Martin Pentreath, Blipraven10 wrote: I can't comment on the efficiency or effectiveness of the products, but the company's sales methods cause me great concern. Curious about the products I requested further details. Fischer declined to give them unless I agreed to a visit from an "engineer". Reluctantly I agreed making it clear that as I had no idea of the price I may well not place an order. The "engineer" was poorly informed, both about electric heating and specific Fischer products, and surprisingly reluctant to let me see the products in the brochure. Nonetheless he recommended some, told me that I could only order face to face from an "engineer" - i.e him, and suggested I order there and then and cancel within two weeks. He gave me a price - then did some tapping on his calculator and dropped the price by £700 then offered another £100 off. This was enough for me. I declined and he wrapped up quickly and left. I shudder to think what he could have persuaded my elderly parents to buy.
For anyone considering these products, from what I could gather, the heaters cost between £1,500-£2,500 each. They may well be worth every penny of that but I will be buying electric radiators which may well be inferior to Fischer's, from a supplier who is willing and able to tell me about them, let's me see them before I decide to buy, and lets me order as and when I'm ready in the way that I choose, for between £300-£500 each.
IIRC you can get similar in argos for 20 or 30
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