Anyone know if it's possible to trace easily where the BT land line first termination is? The line just goes into a wall at first floor level of a three floor house and none of the many wall sockets are masters - so I presume there's a junction box of some sort somewhere. I'm getting scratchy sounds and BT engineer has checked and replaced one joint outside the house but it didn't solve the problem, and he says the master point needs to be located.
thx
E.
eastender formulated the question :
BT man should be able to connect a BT cable tracer - Which places a tone on the line and the signal radiated by the line can followed with the probe part of the same kit, at few feet away from the cable.
If it goes in at the ground floor ceiling level/ 1st floor floor level
- likely it might be either on the wall or hidden beneath the floor.
If you've already had BT out and they said they needed to find the master socket, they should have done it. All the wiring up to and including the master socket is theirs, they'll have installed it and the choice of position will have been theirs. Tell them to come back, find it and not to charge for the call out, as they should have found it last time.
SteveW
It is BT's problem to deliver proper service to the NTE (master socket, linebox). This is the demarcation point between your wiring and theirs and where their responsibility stops. It is also their property so they ought to know where it is and locate it so they confirm that service is correct at that point.
In this case it's probably not advisable to annoy the engineer that comes out. Explain the problem, that the noise is still present after a recent visit and that you don't know where the NTE is. Ply with beverage of choice and biscuits...
An annoyed engineer will just put a new linebox at an convenient point and deliver service to there. They may or may not connect your wiring to that point depending on how annoyed they are, he doesn't have to it's your wiring.
I've never seen any such master junction box - it's always a master socket. Do they exist? Have you actually examined the backs of all the outlets to make sure one isn't a master? If you think it's a modified old installation - lots of new sockets - check the ground floor hall one first as that's where many had a single phone.
The phone wire in my house comes to a junction box marked 'PO' (Post Office) and then to a badly wired socket so can I get BT to replace it for fgree and what magic words do I use to get them to do so?
Steve Walker wrote:
In my experience they do. Oval shaped objects to which the wires from outside are attached /inserted in screw connectors and from the other long end, the cable from the phone is screwed into the connectors. I had them in the last two houses and my father's house still has that primary input from recollection.
Yebbut that's a Box Connection 52A, it's not a 'master' and does not contain the components required in a master socket.
However Lineboxes can be obtained which do not have an outward socket on the removeable faceplate part.
Owain
"Dave Liquorice" wrote
Dave
Your post reads as though all old installations must, by now, have been updated and all properties must have a master type socket of some form. Is this correct? ISTR that my parents' place had an oval connection box, but no "master box" for years after the NTE5 came along. Were the components (now housed in the master box) previously included in each phone?
Phil
That is just a Block Terminal No.52a not an NTE or master socket. It simply joins bits of cable together it does not form the demarcation point between BT and subscriber wiring in modern systems.
There may be still a few such hardwired systems in existantce in which case the instrument itself is also BT's property and responsibilty, though they may argue about that.
Old hard wired installations are now probably quite rare. There is no "must" about conversion but I'd expect BT to do a conversion (for free) when called out to cure a fault on such an installation. This could present the householder with a problem unless the BT engineer changed the line cord on the old hardwired instrument to one with a plug on it and made the required wiring/jumper changes in the phone.
Simple answer: Yes.
No, some houses never got upgraded. There was (is) a charge of £25+ vat to have your existing junction box upgraded to an NTE5.
BT Pricelist:
"Conversion of hard-wired master socket to Linebox and Regularisation of illicit master socket:
Per line - normal 25.00 +VAT"
Yes, sort of.
The components in the master box are:
We live in a large Victorian house that's had many a DIY bodge and the BT man reckoned there's an old junction box where the main line terminates - somewhere. We've had a bathroom redone recentlynear where the line comes in and I fear the box is now buried under new floor tiling. As it was gone 5pm I said we'd fix another appointment - I think it may be best if he just runs a new line to an existing socket and then I'll just have to rewire the rest myself if the extensions don't work or if there's still scratchy sounds.
E.
enlightening. Thanks both Owain and Dave.
These two url's are good for identification particularly if you once knew the PO/BT number and age related brain rot has set in :)
"Dave Liquorice" wrote
Thanks Dave Have only worked on modern installs, so history lesson is useful Phil
It could be that your socket is a master that was just tacked on after the junction box or it could be that your system has never been upgraded and a previous occupant has fitted their own socket. I'd just contact your phone company, find out what they think you've got and see if they'll change it.
I have heard that there is a (fairly nominal) charge for having a master socket fitted, but I know that mine was fitted free.
SteveW
BT would recover the old phone and issue a new one. Jumper changes inside the phone wouldn't correct the ringer impedance.
Owain
That is the easy way and saves the engineer knowing how to alter the jumpers on many different types of phone...
*IIRC* it depends on the ringer. Some have two coils of 2k each, old system in parallel = 1k, new system in series = 4k.
I suspect that would only apply if you asked them to come and do it. If they trundle along to sort out a fault they need the demarcation point to show that the BT side is working as it should.
It's really part of the anti-tinkle circuit to stop pulse dialling tinkling the bells in any on hook instruments. One of the dial switches shorts the anti-tinkle wire to the A wire, as all the bells are connected between the anti-tinkle to the A wire this shorts them out as well. The capcitor is there to allow the AC ringing current onto the anti-tinkle wire to ring the bells and to block the DC so that operating the dial doesn't put a short on the line, leaving the dial pulse contacts to do that as the dial runs back.
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