Europe > UK plug rewiring

[Jerry]

Sharrock"

Quite possible, IIRC the (original appliance flex) harmonisation came in *before* the UK actually joined the EEC.

[Adam Funk]

Where? Is it a two-phase system as used in the USA (+120 and

-120 VAC)?

[Andrew Gabriel]

Not that I know of.

There are areas with 3-phase delta 230V one leg grounded. If you are supplied from the two ungrounded legs, both will be around

130V relative to ground (found in some scandinavian countries, at least). There are also IT (Isolée Terre) supplies where the grounding is done through a resistor (found in some areas of France, at least).

(There were some 240-0-240 VAC supplies in UK rural areas for farms, where a 3-phase run was too expensive, but these were rare. Some high power farm machinary was thus available in 480V versions as an alternative to the standard 415V 3-phase, but 480V never caught on in any other UK industries.)

[Andy Wade]

It is indeed CENELEC.

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:02:36 GMT someone who may be "Brian Sharrock" wrote this:-

I'm glad to read that others have the same sort of recollection as I do. The EU are not standardising the colours. In fact it was the IEE, as was, who decided to bring the colours into line with CENELEC.

Glad to hear that you had no answer to the question of whether the old colours were intuitive.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Green as earth may have been 'intuitive' to you, but to many earth is black in colour. Red for danger may well be fairly universal, but the real problem with this is that a large percentage of the population are red/green colour blind - most obvious in poor lighting conditions. Harmonising the colours was a real step forward safety wise as the striped earth wire can no longer be confused even with poor vision in poor lighting.

Of course I've often wondered why the cables aren't also printed with a letter or even their function although earth line and neutral won't necessarily be recognised in every EC country.

[Guy King]

The message from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Red/green colour blindness doesn't actually mean you confuse red and green though. I should know - when the optician tested my eyesight a while ago he reckoned I was one of the most colourblind people he'd ever tested.

[Adam Funk]

I should have clarified that American houses are supplied with a neutral as well as the two live phases. Most circuits are connected to a neutral and one live (and the earth of course), but electric cookers are connected (with a special plug) to the neutral, the earth and both phases.

Interesting. I don't think I'd ever heard of this system.

[Brian Sharrock]

I _did not_ mention the EU - you did! What was the date of promulgation for the document you and others 'recollect'?

CENLEC didn't exist before the Statuary Instrument 1969 introducing the 'new' colours for portable equipment in the UK.

The question, originated by the OP, was about changing a _single phase_ European plug to a UK domestic Single -phase [13A] plug.

[Brian Sharrock]

... big deal! Apart from cherno ... black earth ... and parts of the Lancastrain plain near Ormskirk ... 'earth' = 'soil' ... is not usually black. I did write "Greenout of sympathy with the patriotism envoked by the phrase?

Once upon a time; (the fifties) a colour blind 'discrimination' test was given to all pupils at age fifteen by the (then) Ministry of Labour. it was part of a sieve for eligibility for National Service. A fellow pupil had poor vision in one eye and the 'Doctor' wrote that he should not be permitted to operate lathes, grinders, milling machinery etc. 'in case he loses the vision in his 'good' eye. The lad couldn't serve the apprenticeship for wich he'd be 'lined-up'. If one failed the colour part - you couldn't be employed as an electrician.

Which letter system; Roman, Arabic, Cyrillic, Hebrew ... Urdu, Benglai, Chinese ....? Perhaps you should cease 'wondering'?

[Brian Sharrock]

The USA system is _weird_. Elecktrickery is generated with three-phase system and distributed this way to pole mounted transformers. As in UK, a street of houses will be split with a single phase going to each house (and the 3? balanced across the street's houses). At the pole the three phases are 220V ~ each 120 deg apart. One phase is taken to the house. At the house 'box' the single (proper) phase supply is transformer-ed and centre-tapped to provide a pair of anti-phase +110 0 - 110 waveforms. When USA folk talk of two-phase cookers; table saws etc they're really referring to what we in the UK would term a single phase 220V service.

[Martin Bonner]

The mnemonic I use is scatalogical, but EXTREMELY memorable:

"If you touch the brown wire, it will knock the shit out of you"

(Very suitable for teaching to small children, who /will/ giggle, but /won't/ forget.)

[Matt]

The Red/Black/Green or Brown/Blue/Green-Yellow are more logical than the n*****ts American way of doing it, Black/White/Green together with appliance fusing and switching dispersed between the "live" and "neutral" seemingly at random. Fused live and switched neutral anyone? Just stick a CE sticker on the back and f*ck it.

The new EU/CENELEC "improved" three phase colours are proving to be nearly indistinguishable in poor light for those identified as having no perceptible colour blindness problems in standard tests.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It certainly can - especially in poor lighting.

If you can easily tell the difference you're not red green colour blind.

[Andy Wade]

"Split-phase" is the preferred terminology for this. Calling it "two-phase" is deprecated because of the possibility of confusion with

2-phase quadrature systems, which were used in the past in some parts of the world.

AIUI split-phase 230-0-230 V LV distribution is quite still common in some parts of the UK, although it's rare for a consumer to receive both phase 'legs'. ('Wanderer' might like to to comment further.)

Also I've noticed that electricians will often say "2-phase" when referring to the circuit for a load (such as a big welder) which is connected between two phases of the normal 3-ph system, and therefore receives a 400 V single-phase supply.

The Norwegian system (again AIUI) is 3-phase 3-wire 230 V (no neutral distributed) and is an IT system, with some sort of voltage limiting device between the neutral point of the distribution transformer and earth. This system is also used in parts of Belgium, I believe.

[Dave Fawthrop]

|> Are you sure you haven't swapped the brown and blue? | |The mnemonic I use is scatalogical, but EXTREMELY memorable: | | "If you touch the brown wire, it will knock the shit out of you" | |(Very suitable for teaching to small children, who /will/ giggle, but |/won't/ forget.)

My mnemonic, only suitable for oldies like me who started off when red was live, and brown neutral.

"Only a committee sound change neutral to live".

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It's not green either - unless next door's party went a bit over the top.

That's fine when you are familiar with the term. Unfortunately not everyone will be.

[Andy Wade]

When/where was brown neutral? I've never met that one before. Yellow for earth in flexes and white, rather than yellow, for what we now call L2, but never ever a brown neutral.

[Tony Bryer]

It's what we've got at our (5-flat) service head - it's what's in the road, a throwback to DC days AIUI

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

"Dave Plowman (News)" typed

If you can't do the Ishihara plates, you are colour blind.

My Dad is colour blind and I have one eye with defective colour vision following optic neuritis.

Distinguishing red from brown and brown from green are often more problematic than with the 'pure' colours.

We do not live in a black and white world. I can do few Ishihara Plates with my bad eye, though have 6/9 acuity on a Snellen chart. The functional vision is rather poor.