Euro locks

[rbel]

Interesting problem has come to light

[Phil]

*Yawn* So that's why you can buy snap-safe locks!

[Tim Watts]

Lot to be said for nice old fashioned lever locks - decent ones anyway...

[MM]

I watched the programme. My locks look just like the ones shown, but I don't know whether they are the actual type that are sensitive to snapping or a more resilient kind. How can I check? The house is seven years old.

MM

[Dave Liquorice]

Take the cylinder out and have a look?

[MM]

Have a look at what? How would one differentiate between a 'bad' lock and a 'good' lock, given that one only has the one lock in one's hand?

MM

[MM]

By the way, this issue also featured on today's You and Yours, in which the 'specialist' stated the price of a secure snap-proof lock as between £25 and £50. I wonder who is thieving whom here...

MM

[Tim]

Um, compare it to some pictures on the net? Look for BS markings?

Tim

[Andrew Gabriel]

on, it also covers solid wall insulation.

[Dave Liquorice]

Perzackerly, JFGI. That's how I found out what this lock snapping is, how to do it and how to make it harder to do.

[Ilene Dover]

In message , MM writes

Probably the best example of an Anti-snap Euro-cylinder here:

bit to look for is the groove around the lock which goes on the outside. This is the sacrificial section which is designed to snap off and prevent snapping.

[Phil]

...and the usually mean that you can only open from the non-snapped side with a key. Better check you can still gain entry through your other door (not bolted from the inside, for example).

Phil.

[grimly4]

knowing until I take it out.

I don't know why she kept referring to it as 'stone cladding'.

[David]

Slightly alarmed by this thread, can anyone tell me if these are any good please ?

[Ilene Dover]

The Yale leaves 2 pins available for unlocking from the outside e.g. the rear section of the cylinder remains in place. I only suggested it as an example, not the only solution. As mentioned in another post, the Avocet ABS locks are available as an alternative.

The biggest problem with any advanced lock is preventing the scroat from being able to turn the mechanism and operate the lock. Given time, no lock is scroat proof.

I am, by the way, not associated with any lock manufacturer, I just work in the window and door manufacturing industry. We use Yale as their locks are superior to cheaper alternatives. An average Yale Anti-snap is

30 quid retail, not much when you think of the security advantage. Avocet ABS locks are about the same price if you shop around but, there may be a problem getting hold of them due to problems with the supplying company at the moment.

A minor disadvantage with Avocet ABS locks is the cost of replacement keys.

Lock snapping is spreading across the country and has not been helped by videos of how to snap a lock on sites such as Youtube so replacing standard Euro-cylinders is a good idea. We fit them as standard. a lot of other manufacturers still fit standard cylinders.

While I'm at it, a major factor in the snapping scenario is the hole cut in the door profile. A good door has a hole the same shape and only slightly larger than the lock which adds support to the lock and makes snapping harder, a lot of doors have huge holes which offer no support to the lock.

[fred]

In article , Ilene Dover writes

IMV protection from snapping has been viewed in a backwards manner for far too long. Manufacturers view it as inevitable that a euro cannot be protected from snapping and so choose to make cylinders that are more susceptible to snapping (but in a predictable manner) in order to solve the problem.

Leaving 2 pins in place after snapping to protect what was a 5 or 6 pin lock before cannot be viewed as a security enhancement. Where 6 pins might protect against a screwdriver hammered in and torqued to force rotation of the plug, 2 pins could never survive this kind of attack, leaving the lock susceptible to easy entry.

Going back to the original problem, manufacturers are happy to leave extended cylinders 'protected' by wafer thin handle bodies cast in 'shitmetal'(tm) that can me jemmied off in 2s flat, leaving a cylinder vulnerable to snapping when handles could be made much beefier, making them closer to security escutcheons that are required on proper security rated BS euro installations.

Personally I would never use a euro for a security installation (lever mortice every time thank you) but if I was forced to do so, say by use of a plastic door, I would attack the problem at source by use of proper cylinder protection and use a cylinder with a more secure cylinder rather than making the main locking element weaker.

Made in volume, strong, solid, steel cored handles would go a long way to solving this problem and add a couple of quid per installation but IMV no-one is interested in either selling in security as a value added cost or taking the small hit on margin.

[David]

>> Thanks

Well, bought a couple, installed them and one snapped at the securing hole when the securing screw was tightened, so not recommended.

Going to try these instead:

[Ilene Dover]

In message , David writes

You've learnt the second rule of security... You get what you pay for!

We had rep in here the other day trying to sell us his range of locks, cylinders and handles. He was doing quite well until our foreman pointed out that his locks were not BS EN1303: 2005.

The rep tried to explain that all their locks and mechanics were made in the most advanced factory in China to their own design and were as secure as necessary despite not being snap-proof or anti-bump..

Ten minutes later he was in his car driving off into the sunset.

[David]

Well, the UAP lock from

were listed as being:

BSEN 1303:2005 and: PAS 024:2007

also stamped with the BSI kitemark.

I looked at the ABS Avocet locks, and I did not like the way if they had been attacked and partially snapped, the lock can ONLY be unlocked from inside. Whereas the UAP locks leave a portion of the barrel in the lock enabling the key to still unlock it from the outside whilst still being locked to attempted burglars.

The newest Yale anti-snap locks utilise a steel bar that both halves of the lock are pinned to, and resists snapping at the mounting point, but will allow a portion of the lock to be snapped off under attack and leaving the rest of the barrel enabling unlocking from outside as per the UAP locks.

David