EU to flush your money down your toilet?

[Adrian]

I seem to recall him getting some very substantial concessions a little while back.

[Tim Streater]

For some value of "substantial", perhaps. What he should be looking to get is ditching the "ever closer union" nonsense. That is unlikely now that Merkel needs one of the other parties in her coalition (see what I mean) that has already explicitly said that they won't support that.

[Roger Chapman]

None so blind as them that will not see. What would you expect when the Tories had already torpedoed the quid pro quo of Lords reform - roll over and play doormat?

[Roger Chapman]

No it isn't. The foreigner in the UK is likely to get much better benefits from the state than the Brit in a foreign land.

I don't think that is actually true but since I have never been in the situation where I have needed state aid from a foreign power I won't argue the point.

[Adrian]

They will get the local rate. To do otherwise would be illegal.

It's one of the most basic tenets of the EU that a state cannot treat a national differently to a national of another EU state, with the exception of a few specific cases - mainly national security related.

Free movement of people, remember? Treaty of Rome, 1957. In place when we joined the EEC in 1975.

The perceived problem comes in the UK having, for example, one of the very best and most generous health systems anywhere. Most other EU countries, health is not free at the point of provision. So should the UK remove or restrict that (for all, remember)?

[The Natural Philosopher]

this is a good history

"The Treaty of Rome in 1957.

This set up the European Economic Community (EEC), known as the Common Market. The Common Market sounds like economic co-operation only, but the treaty set up all the machinery of a single superstate, including a Council of Ministers, an executive Commission, a Parliament, a legal system based on continental law and headed by a European Court of Justice, a Central Bank and a tax system called VAT. There was also a Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), although Fishing was not yet included. There was no way of changing any parts of the treaty unless all signatories agreed to do so.

The European Court of Justice was set up to give judgements which must always be in favour of closer political union. This court had little to do with ?Justice? and much to do with ?Integration?. It should have, more accurately, been called the European Court of Integration.

This treaty, and all the others following, were drafted in accordance with the ?Acquis Communautaire? system, ?that which is acquired by the Community.? It means power, once handed to Brussels, is never returned, and cannot be re-negotiated. "

[Jethro_uk]

That was my reading of the situation, and to be honest my hope. The idea of a Tory majority throwing it's weight around was quite scary.

Unfortunately whether by design, or just the way "things go", it's been very very hard to see much LibDem tempering of the Tory tendencies. I am not so naive as to think they could have things their own way, and understand the tuition fees situation as a necessary part of doing business with the Tories. However there have been lots of opportunities for the LibDems to have softened Tory policies that appear to have been missed.

The net result - for me - is that all 3 parties are simply too toxic. I don't yet know what candidates will be up for selection in 2015. However, I know that my vote will not go to Con/Lab/LibDem. Labour have revealed their true Tory colours by voting *with* the government to retrospectively deny compensation to people treated unlawfully by the state. Something I think the courts will eventually overturn.

My hope for the next election is that no permanent coalition is possible, and we have some enforced consensus politics.

[Tim Streater]

But that didn't seem to be what was under discussion. Looked to me like the discussion was about people coming here, and then being on benefits.

The problem, IMO, is about people coming here to be residents, when the country is overcrowded to the point that there is a shortage of houses, and it gets harder every day to find where to put new infrastructure. People coming to do crop picking live in accommodation on site provided by the farmer for the purpose (which stands empty the rest of the year), and therefore has no impact on general housing. These folk, AFAIK, come from Eastern Europe but it'd make no difference whether they come Inverness or Kerry.

[Jethro_uk]

The problem the Tories will face if we do leave the EU (which I can't see happening) will be explaining to the public how we left the EU to protect our free health service which they will want to charge us for.

[Tim Streater]

These are the two most egregious aspects.

[Adrian]

Which they don't - can't - do.

Remember, this is talking about EEA, not EU - so even if we left the EU, they wouldn't change, unless we were to leave the EEA - which not even Farage is suggesting.

"In practice, even if you come from one of these countries, you won't automatically get benefits. For example, if you?re an EEA jobseeker who has never worked in the UK, you won't be able to claim benefits like Income Support, income-based Jobseeker's allowance, Child Benefit, Housing Benefit or Council Tax Reduction. But if you're an EEA worker who has been employed in the UK before becoming unemployed, you might be able to claim benefits whilst you?re looking for new work. This depends on which EEA country you're from and how long you've worked in the UK."

...and yet people whine and whinge when a political party suggests that people being funded to live in larger homes than their family requires isn't ideal...

[bert]

In message , Artic > spiralling costs, we shouldn't already not be flushing more than we had to?

Yes, one in every four times you use the bog hence their calculation of average flush.

[bert]

In message , Adrian writes

Why? Seems to me such differences are of no consequence.

[bert]

Precisely the points that now need to be reviewed in a referendum on whether we do or do not wish to be part of the EU as it exists today, not as it was in 1975 I'm willing to give Cameron or whoever a couple of years to see what changes if any can be achieved by negotiation.

[bert]

Staying in the EU may well prove to be the bigger threat to the NHS as we know it as Europe is quite happy to include opening up our health market to international competition as part of current trade negotiations.

[bert]

In message , Tim Streater writes

Wasn't he a commissioner who was then elected president as the majority didn't hate him as much as they hated the others.

[bert]

In message , Tim Streater writes

And of course some countries never got to vote at all. Every country should have held their referendum on the same day.

[bert]

In message , Java Jive writes

FFS stop bleating on about links. If you don't know such basic information about political events in Europe you are hardly in a position to say anything worth while on the subject. RTFN where N = newspapers

[bert]

In message , Tim Streater writes

My dog probably will :-(

[bert]

In message , Brian Gaff writes

They assume it from the water input.