And it's not quicker anyway, having nothing better to do I timed our kettle (3Kw jug type with a plate type element).
With the it containing water up to the minimum mark - about 1 2/3 mugs it brought it to boiling in 55 secs.
and whilst hot water might be ok for instant coffee, you need boiling water for tea (though if you are just waving a tea bag in a cup maybe it's a moot point) Proper coffee and tea in a tea pot here though
In message , Andrew Gabriel writes
I've got one of the ones that Maplin sell/sold, though I got it from ebay for about £10. It appears to be a UK version of the Kill-a-watt, looking basically the same.
It seems to be pretty accurate, and can measure and take account of power factor
When we had a centrally controlled heating system installed at work, the works Engineer was worried about the women in the stores as they were always moaning about the temperature being high or low and weren't allowed to alter the 'stat. I advised him to leave the 'stat there and tell the women that although there was central control there was some control on the 'stat and that they may use it. They seemed quite happy with the arrangement.
In message , Terry Fields writes
I'm not sure why becoming cold fill would boost their energy ratings if you think it means they use more, I reckon it probably makes it more efficient to be cold fill only on the whole, esp as they use less water now. It doesn't have to draw a loads of cold or cooler water from the hot pie, just to leave HW lying in the pipe. It just heats it as it needs it. Even those with hot fill would sit heating for a while anyway (well my old one did, even on a 40C program, I think it probably drew hot and cold water anyway)
EnergyLinx who I've found the best seem to pretty much list them all, unless they don't want to be listed.
Possibly a short sighted approach?
I don't have a problem with the comparison sites getting a commission, they provide a useful service, it needs to be paid for somehow.
They are just a standing charge for most people by another name.
tariff, which unfortunately is much much more expensive for me (as in £100's a year more)
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:11:31 +0000 someone who may be Big Les Wade wrote this:-
Who says that it does measure room temperature at all accurately?
They are provided with numbers rather than temperature markings mainly because they don't measure room temperature well.
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:29:17 +0000 someone who may be PeterC wrote this:-
I wouldn't be sexist about it, some men are as fussy as some women. However, dummy thermostats are used in many buildings. As long as it clicks when they turn the knob they "know" that they have control over the heating and then are happy.
David Hansen posted
If it can't sense the room temperature, then it can't reasonably be said to set the room temperature. The only temperature that it *can* sense is that of the radiator (or that part of it with which the valve is in thermal contact) in which case it can only set that temperature.
It's the same theory Dynamo Dave/Greenpiss apply to all green issues.
What counts is not reducing carbon dioxide, but making people *feel* that they are.
Armed with this astonishing insight, we can see how his reasoning works, when indeed it does at all..
A bit like the pedestrian crossing buttons on traffic lights in New York. They disconnected them all ~30 years ago to stop pedestrians screwing up the traffic light sequencing, but there was an outcry when they installed some new lights with no buttons. So they fit [disconnected] new buttons on all new installations now.
CPC have been selling the UK Kill-a-watt look-a-like for £4.95 on and off. (that would be +VAT)
Wrong reason. They're cold fill because modern European washing detergents are damaged by hot water, and then can't wash properly. Their improved ratings are in part because they've been designed to work with low temperature wash powders.
In this case it is.
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:17:04 +0000 someone who may be Big Les Wade wrote this:-
That's not what I said.
What I did say is that it does not sense that temperature well.
Two different things.
Wrong. It senses the air temperature at the valve. Obviously that will be partly influenced by radiation from the radiator striking the valve and affecting the air temperature. It will also partly be affected by convection from the pipework. However, provided it is sited correctly, the main thing it will sense is the temperature of the air in the room, to be more precise it will sense the temperature of the air circulating in the room, as it is drawn back to the radiator.
I have already explained sited correctly, not being covered by furniture or curtains being one factor. Not being sited in a corner is another.
With these restrictions they sense the room temperature to some extent and so save energy and thus reduce greenhouse gas emissions. They do this without disruptive pipe and electrical work.
More precise control is achieved with a well sited room thermostat controlling the radiator(s) in the room, at the expense of money and pipe and electrical work.
For a house a combination of room thermostats in the main rooms and thermostatic valves in core areas, like halls and bathrooms, is about as good as it gets at the moment.
More like >60%. Mine is about 16 years old and is 1kW input, 600W output.
I usually manage to be within about 10 - 20ml of the amount needed in the kettle; also fill it immediately to use the residual heat.
er, wot's sexist? The place was full of wimmin.
Been with Ebico for a couple of years (I like the principle) and every time I try a comparison I get negative savings.
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:45:27 +0000 someone who may be chris French wrote this:-
Whether that point is right or not depends on how long the pipe is and how well insulated it is. If the pipe is long and uninsulated the point has validity, if it is short and well insulated it does not. Manufacturers have removed choice from customers.
Feed them just from the cold pipe and they tend to take rather longer to heat. If they don't then no hot water has been used, perhaps because the pipe is long and uninsulated.
Possibly. However, they have been going for a decade with this "short sighted" approach so it can't be that foolish.
You must use a lot of gas and electricity for that to be the case. For many/most people they are cheaper.
There is a certain amount of justification for that myth. Unlike a bi-metal room stat which is either on or off a TRV gradually closes as the target temperature is approached. When the valve is partially closed the output of the radiator is reduced and it will take longer to cover the final few degrees up to the desired temperature.
Heating the water in the machine is less wasteful than heating it remotely, although the latter might be 'cheaper'. About 7 years ago I really went off Bosch: I was looking at AEG, Bosch and Miele and Bosch had about half the kWh rating for 60C cotton wash, but was hot/cold fill. Also, if the run for the hot water is long, the machine will take in cold water to heat and leave the hot water in the pipe to get cold.
On 05 Feb 2009 14:57:17 GMT someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote this:-
I assume the biological ones are. Why would a non-biological one be damaged?
What works for me is using a grill/microwave comby. Thick, crispy skins, often charred on the outside, with a soft potato filling. Cooked in around 10 minutes, turned once for even grill heat
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