electronic vs. inline de-scalers

[Can2002]

Has anyone had any positive experiences with electronic de-scalers? I was thinking of installing one recently but our plumber was sceptical about how effective they are!

Cheers, Can

[Grunff]

People will tell you they have, but people will also tell you homeopathy works. It doesn't, neither do electronic anti-scale devices.

[Andy Hall]

It would be a good idea if you wouldn't mind doing a Google Groups search on this topic. We have had this thread ad nauseam on numerous occasions.

There are never more than one or two people who claim to have derived any benefit from these devices, and the vast majority of group participants are nay-sayers. The suppliers typically offer a money back guarantee and the devices are cheap enough that a lot of people wouldn't bother. There is little or no supporting scientific evidence which explains the operation of electronic/electric/magnetic descaling in the way that domestic devices are operated.

If you want something that does help with scaling, then there are phosphate dosing systems which do work and can be explained scientifically.

cost about £130 to buy plus about £20 a year in chemical to go in it

This is a scale prevention system only - it does not soften the water and makes no difference to detergent and shampoo consumption.

If you want to do that as well as preventing scale, then the only solution is to use an ion exchange water softener, These cost from £300 or so to buy and use crystalline or pebble salt to regenerate the ion exchange resin. The cost of the salt can generally be covered by the detergent and shampoo savings.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Lee Blaver]

A few more people have claimed that homeopathy works than electronic de-scalers, but I don't think the placebo effect works on inanimate objects...

Lee

[slifkin]

There has been some scientific research into this topic.

you might like to look at

[Grunff]

Even if the results of this research were verified (by being reproduced by other independant groups), it's important to note that the weakest field they refer to is 0.1T. That is a *very strong* field by domestic standards, and I'd be extremely surprised if any of the domestic anti-scale devices generate anything approaching that.

[Andy Hall]

I said "In the way that domestic devices are operated".

By definition this is a single pass and not a recirculating arrangement.

From the LSBU article:-

"Many tests mainly utilizing single pass systems, however, have proved negative [212]. Recirculatory systems, with prolonged magnetic exposure, give more supportive results."

"A recent well-controlled study has shown that scaling can be reduced by a few percent by even one pass though a simple magnetic device but that it is difficult to increase this effect to more than about 20% even with extensive recirculation [259]. "

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Woodspoiler]

This is an interesting link too -

- given that credible research results on this are hard to find online. Allegedly there was a Which report on domestic systems which said that some of the models tested had an effect. Haven't seen the original report to verify this. I have also heard that a model that works in one location may not work in another. So even if there is an effect, it seems to be very hit-and-miss.

W.

de-scalers? I was

sceptical about how

Groups

on numerous

have derived

group

offer a money

of people

scientific evidence

descaling

there are

chemical to go

the water

consumption.

only

cost from

regenerate the

covered by

proved

reduced

device but

20%

[Peter Taylor]

Can2002 wrote

I haven't got the space for an ion exchange softener at present, and about 2 years ago when a friend said he was throwing out a Water King WK1 electronic water softener I asked if I could try it. I put it on the rising main in the kitchen and for about 2 or 3 weeks afterwards the hot water was definitely cloudy and I was getting a soft white paste out of the hot taps and even in the kettle. That's all stopped now. I can't say we've noticed any remarkable softening of the water but, to be fair, the blurb does say that the calcium stays in suspension and the water will not be as slippery or as soft as an ion exchange softener.

I'm not convinced it's a good investment - it costs around £110 to buy I think, and they say you need two to give good results. I'm going to move mine soon onto the down cold service for the cylinder, which is supposed to be the most effective siting, but I'm not holding my breath and I probably won't buy a second one based on the results so far.

Peter

[Ed Sirett]

One of the variables would be the water hardness which I could well anticipate varying significantly on some water supplies.

Whilst I'm open to the _possibility_ that there might be some sort of effect that might be useful, I'm generally very pissed off by the manufacturers trying to claim, for instance, that the permanent magnetic field could affect water in a steel pipe. The resulting field stength within a steel pipe is likely to be inversely related to the relative permeabilities of water and steel. That's about 3 magnitudes! In fact with quite strong magnets that is likely to be the same sort of strength as you would have by running the water through a plastic pipe getting the full blast of the Earth's natural feild.

Usually with sales literature it is possible to see that a small but real 'feature' has been hyped up. I take a much dimmer view where the brochure is attempting qualitative deception rather than quantitative.

[Ed Sirett]

... but it does work on the animate observers. In fact AIUI even some approved medicines with full scale double blind trials have only managed to exhibit an effect that is just a bit better than the placebo effect!

So what have we: The pen is mightier than the sword. The imaginary is mightier still.

[Can2002]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your feedback:-)

Regards, Chris