In article , Arfa Daily scribeth thus
Course for Pro and or road use robustness comes into it where plastic bodied plugs aren't what I'd consider up to it;!..
Well they would say that .. wouldn't they;?...
I wonder what if you applied a music signal across that what the volts drop would be compared to a number of other connectors?.
Or how they would manage with a continuous 15 amp RMS current compared to other connectors.
One for some experimentation when I'm retired I expect..
Peter Walker stated years ago in Quad handbooks that the loop resistance of the cable and connectors to the speakers shouldn't exceed 10% of the nominal speaker impedance. Removable connectors like a plug and socket are always the weak link in a chain. And it's one thing checking brand new connectors, but another measuring their actual performance after being plugged up untouched for some time. And anyone who's ever used any type of jack will know that their performance deteriorates under these conditions. In other words they are designed for frequent removal and replacement to keep them clean.
There is a big difference between an adequately specified speaker cable and one which isn't. There is no point in 'bettering' adequate, though. It's very possible you can't hear the effect of introducing resistance to a speaker feed, or have equipment that simply doesn't show it. Just accept that others can.
Introducing a 1/4" jack socket. ;-)
You seem to have changed your tune. It's now that *some* specially made
1/4" jack connectors are suitable for speakers. Not what you said initially.That might be the case.
Personally, I dislike using the 'same' type of connector for a variety of tasks. When there is no need and better alternatives available.
It also makes a nonsense of having jacks for both line level and speakers on a PA setup if you have to have 'special' leads for the speakers. Why not just use a decent made for the job connector/lead in the first place?
====even more snippage====
True but they'd need to be better engineered to achieve the required consistency. All too often, I'd come across examples where the outer ground return on the socket was sufficiently undersized to cause an open circuit with properly sized plugs and vice versa on cheap plugs.
[PG_Mode ON]"It surely was, Tony... it surely was."
[PG_Mode OFF]
I must admit, a 15A rating seems it might be overly optimistic for most 1/4 inch jacks and plugs but it's certainly a credible figure if both plug and jack are properly engineered.
However, this might be based on a short term duty cycle measured in seconds rather than the hours used for 13A mains sockets which have a similar contact area (but better heat dissipation).
Also, don't discount the effect of the square law current to power relationship. Even with a 4 ohm speaker load, a test tone that provides an rms current of 15A represents a continuous power output of
900W (for an 8 ohm speaker load, that becomes 1.8KW!).I've seen references in this thread to the use of a quarter inch jack plug being deemed acceptable in cases where the maximum rms ouput powers are limited to sub 300W. That seems to have a 'sound' basis in that 225W into 4 ohm speakers represents a mere 7.5A rms current through the jack contacts. The same power level into an 8 ohm speaker load reduces the amperage to just over 5A rms (or 7.5A peak).
I'd say I've been dealing with professional PA rigs for rather longer than him and I say they're not.
You've never seen broken jack plugs or sockets? I really don't believe that. I've yet to have to see a broken Speakon or Powercon - which is one reason I'm so keen on them. Even more so for gear involved in use 'on the road'.
Bunch of amateurs. Cables to speakers etc should be either rigged so they can't be tripped over or protected from that. To make this a reason not to use a locking connector says much about him. As any roadie worthy of the name would tie off a 1/4" jack lead to the speaker precisely because it is so easily pulled out. And any cable to a stand mounted speaker secured so it doesn't attempt to pull over the speaker - which should be on a sensible stable stand anyway, where the public are admitted.
So you've found another who doesn't understand such things as regards high quality amplification. So what?
I'll ask again, since you are conveniently avoiding the topic which is about 'Hi-Fi' speaker connectors. Not pub sound systems.
Which Hi-Fi amplifier uses 1/4" jacks for speakers? Or even which domestic amp uses them?
And hostile environments. One can go further and use eg 'starquad' (4 twisted cores per signal, apart from the screen).
Brilliant stuff, starquad.
In article , Arfa Daily scribeth thus
Simple Arfa, they need to sell and if thats what the market wants then they'll make it. They are astute enough to see that people will still use the jack plug if they so want to.
Regardless of the original application and intent.
Are they actually saying that as such;?.
They just make them as the market rightly or whatever may demand..
Like cigarette makers ;-!.....
Well as maybe you can measure the contact resistance of two bits of 22 SWG wire touching each other and that may well be low but it won't handle that much current..
Had a look at a jack plug and socket last night and it does seem that its a very small contact area actually used.
I gave what Peter Walker (Quad) said about it elsewhere.
You might also ask why Neutrik went to the bother of designing the Speakon if the 1/4" jack was a perfect speaker connector.
Do you even think before posting this crap?
Some of us have dealt with this sort of thing all our working lives and have opinions based on experience. The fact that a legacy connector is still a standard in one area doesn't make it the best for the job. If it were, it would be universal.
So the fact that there is an 'improved' version specifically for speakers doesn't make you realise that a 'standard' type is lacking in some way? Do you actually understand what you post?
At least you seem to understand that bit.
Arfa is a simple repair man. If he ever actually used the damn things in anger he'd know just what a crap connector they are in practice. Just simply move any jack which has seen some service and you'll likely get a crackle...
Just think of their history. They were initially designed for a telephone switchboard. Where the important thing was ease of insertion and removal. And where they'd be used frequently so keep fairly clean.
Once you remove the need for easy insertion, their shortcomings as a connector become very apparent.
In article , Dave Plowman (News) scribeth thus
Heres a better one;)....
Would you buy anything from a firm that can't count? ;-)
In article , Dave Plowman (News) scribeth thus
Now it does say..
"Image similar"!
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