Electrical wiring inspector?

[phil]

Is there such a person as an electrical wiring inspector?

I mean someone who will check on not only the safety of the wiring but also the general structure (ie whether it's likely to cause electrical problems in the future such as tripping fuses and the like)?

And more to the point, do they charge much? :)

I've recently moved into a property that has one one major problem with the wiring and still has the odd 'hiccup' (a light in an out-building, when switched on, blows a trip switch; intermittent slight flickering of lights in the house itself; and the mysterious case of a tripped fuse on the lighting circuit this morning).

All in all, I think whoever wired the place bodged the job a bit (some of the wiring is obviously new, and some a bit older).

I am somewhat loathe to call out an electrician to do the inspection as, knowing my luck, I'll end up with one who recommends the maximum work when all I want doing is the basics to ensure that we don't get any more wiring problems and that it's safe.

I live near Carmarthen in Wales if it's of any relevance, out in the wilds. :)

Phil

[PoP]

He's called an electrician. Only you should check to make sure he is capable of carrying out certification of electrical installations - I think that means he should be able to show you his NICEIC card.

As for your comments about an electrician trying it on with respect to what's needed, that does seem to be a bit of a slur on the industry. Most electricians will be fine upstanding people who can be trusted to give you good advice.

And there's nothing to stop you getting 2-3 quotes from different electricians - and I would encourage you to do that regardless. If they all come up with the same advice then it's a sure bet that the necessary work has been identified by each. You would need to question any deviances.

Getting hold of a suitably qualified electrician is probably your main problem. There are quite a few have-a-go heroes who may well be qualified electricians - but I understand that relatively few of them (about 20% was the number I heard!) are qualified to carry out installation testing. Check the NICEIC card.....

If you can't find a suitable electrician then poke around on the NICEIC web site:

[phil]

I see, thanks.

I'm sure they are and no slur was intended, but there's a few bad apples in every barrel I'm afraid hence my reason for asking if there was such a person as an independant inspector (or in this case, electrician :-)

Indeed, thanks.

Will do.

[Owain]

"PoP" wrote | He's called an electrician. Only you should check to make sure he | is capable of carrying out certification of electrical installations | - I think that means he should be able to show you his NICEIC card.

NICEIC is a trade association of member firms and does not certify an individual's technical qualifications.

"Inspection, Testing & Certification of Electrical Installations - City & Guilds 2391" is what is required.

Owain

[N. Thornton]

A NICEIC card is not necessary to do this. What you need is a competent electrician, and a NICEIC card will up your odds of them being competent. It wont guarantee it. It should bring you a higher price too of course.

The sparks I've seen working have varied quality wise, and I cant think offhand how you'd work out what someone's skill level is if you know nothing about the subject. Wite down whats said and come ask us I spose.

Regards, NT

[phil]

I see. So is there a web site that lists those electricians (by location) with that qualification?

Ta Phil

[PoP]

Bad apples are in every type of profession, very profuse in the world of politics I believe :)

Some general pointers which could be helpful might be, in no particular order:

Does the electrician have a web site? Does he have a landline (not mobile) phone number? What does he say when you ask "do you have an NICEIC card"? Has he been recommended by others?

The former questions give some visible means of stability and having been in business for a while. He's probably likely to be around next year too.

The question about NICEIC card could be quite important. You might find the sparky saying something along the lines of "no, I don't need one of those". In reality he really doesn't - he can still be a qualified sparky without ever joining NICEIC, so it's only a half-pointer for you. But without NICEIC he isn't able to certificate his work (not sure if this is the case today - but in a few months time that's going to be the law).

On the other hand, if he does have NICEIC membership then he's probably (note "probably" - I understand there are bad apples in NICEIC!) okay. Reason being that to join NICEIC he has to be positively vetted by the organisation and some of his work inspected. That vetting doesn't necessarily mean free of all evil, but if he's gone to the bother of getting his NICEIC membership then luck says he'll be on the right side of the track.

Andrew

[PoP]

Err, not quite true I think. To join NICEIC you have to be positively vetted, and have some of your work inspected at random. You have to have documented procedures etc to join NICEIC.

Perhaps we are arguing here about schemantics rather than substance. I think I would agree that NICEIC doesn't necessarily suggest technical qualifications.

Undoubtedly. But even with C&G2391 our hapless electrician won't be able to issue certificates - at least under the new legislation which is being imposed shortly. That legislation requires that the electrician is a member of NICEIC or another organisation recognised as being competent to administer electricians (right now there's only the NICEIC in that unique club).

So your electrician will be able to test and install, but won't be able to write a valid certificate for the installation. Leastways, that's the way I read the legislation.

PoP

[bob]

The NICEIC dont issue cards to individuals, as it is a Self Appointed organisation for Companies not Skilled Workers, and the reason that

80% of electricians are not members is because it is widly distrusted by small electrical companies. The only guarantee that a person is qualified to be an electrician is membership of the JIB, an offshoot of the Electricians Trade Union, Their is no other organisation in the UK which can give this guarantee.Members carry a card with their qualifications listed. Ask somone working for a NICEIC firm for their JIB card and chances are that they will not have one!. Regards Bob

[Owain]

"phil" wrote | "Owain" wrote: | >NICEIC is a trade association of member firms and does not certify an | >individual's technical qualifications. | >"Inspection, Testing & Certification of Electrical Installations - City & | >Guilds 2391" is what is required. | I see. So is there a web site that lists those electricians (by | location) with that qualification?

I don't think so. You have to ask each firm whether the person they will be sending to your job will have this qualification.

Owain

[Owain]

"PoP" wrote | Err, not quite true I think. To join NICEIC you have to be positively | vetted, and have some of your work inspected at random. You have to | have documented procedures etc to join NICEIC.

That applies to the firm, not the individual. AIUI only *one* designated individual in a NICEIC firm actually has to be qualified.

| >"Inspection, Testing & Certification of Electrical Installations - City & | >Guilds 2391" is what is required. | Undoubtedly. But even with C&G2391 our hapless electrician won't be | able to issue certificates - at least under the new legislation which | is being imposed shortly. That legislation requires that the | electrician is a member of NICEIC or another organisation recognised | as being competent to administer electricians (right now there's only | the NICEIC in that unique club).

He will still be competent under the IEE Wiring Regulations to certify an installation as complying with those Regulations.

| So your electrician will be able to test and install, but won't be | able to write a valid certificate for the installation. Leastways, | that's the way I read the legislation.

What he will not be able to do is exempt the householder from a Building Control application.

In a similar way a Structural Engineer can sign a design certificate for a lintel but that does *not* exempt the householder from a B.C. application for making a new hole in a wall.

It's quite possible, indeed probable, that there will be installations carried out by employees of NICEIC registered firms, those employees are allowed to exempt the installation from a Building Control application but they are not competent to sign the certificate under the IEE Regs.

Owain

[PoP]

That's interesting information - thanks!

However the new regs (due to come in on April 1st 2004) advise that the person issuing certificates for an installation must be recognised by NICEIC - as I understand it.

No mention of JIB that I've come across.

PoP

[bob]

The JIB (Joint Industry Board for the Electrical Contracting Industry) is a member of the consultative committee for the implementation of BS7671 into Building Control Regulations under its parent organisation ECA. You can visit the JIB website at

[bob]

Try Here

[Andy Wade]

The only thing that comes in on 1st April 2004 is the option to start using the new wiring colours (and you have until 1st April 2006 before you _must_ use them).

Unless it's been announced very recently, the date for adoption of 'Part P' is not yet known, nor have the details of the actual legislation been published. The date is unlikely to be much before the end of 2004 though, with rumours of a one or two-year phase-in. The NICEIC will not necessarily have a monopoly on competence; there are said to be other applicants for running competent persons schemes. In the meantime anyone who considers themselves competent can legitimately sign electrical installation certificates, minor works certificates and periodic inspection reports. Caveat emptor.