[originally posted at the bottom of the recent thread "French plugs" but I think may have been missed by most people - so, apologies if you've already seen this!]
We normally have an electric cable in the tent when camping, and I usually take my old mains inspection lamp with us to provide lighting, but I'm wondering about setting up something a bit more elegant (you'll gather I'm not really into the spirit of this camping mallarkey. Must be getting old).
I'd quite like a central light to hang up in the middle, with another one (or two?) in the sleeping compartment(s); ideally with separate switches. How would the panel recommend doing this safely? I use an RCD unit obviously, but I'm thinking the wiring would be better done in 12V for a start. Where would I find suitable kit to do this?
I know, I was reluctant to suggest it. But having designed and made a 12v lighting system for one of our tents which was legal and safe and efficient we realised that we'd paid far more to Maplin than we would have to Towsure as well as taking a long time in the designing and making :-(
If you really want to know what we did I'm sure I can dig out the details. But try Towsure or Barrans or find a local caravan or camping supplier first to see what's available.
There's hardly a great deal of 'design' to a system like that though. And as for legality, I'm not aware of any laws governing the use of low voltage circuits - can someone enlighten me?
I'm not that clear what youre asking. If you go qith 12v...
Wire can be got from the scrapbox, or anywhere that sells wire, anything that carries the current of the bulbs is ok for 12v. 12v bulbs can be got from scrapyards, auto spares, brake lights typically 21w, headlights typ 55w halogen. Interior lights typ 3-5w.
BUT (it's been many years since my Hurricane was last out of the attic)... 12V systems are *not* intrinsically safe.
In particular I'd have thought that there was a very big risk involved in a tent, especially if cooking or alternative lighting uses gas. Any slightly dodgy connection or worn switch is going to cause sparking or get hot, and we all know what happens to tents if there's the slightest hint of a flame.
As I said, it's a long time since I've been camping and I've never been caravanning so I'm not aware of any particular regulations, but if I were considering installing electric power in my own tent I'd want it to be as intrinsically safe as possible. Maybe not quite up to the standards required for working in explosive atmospheres, but certainly a step or two better than a bit of bell-wire and a few choccy blocks.
OK, sorry, will try to be more specific. I suppose the first question would be, given that I would usually have mains to the tent (ie, an RCD-protected 4-way block in the corner), does it make more sense to wire 240V flex from this to the sleeping compartments, which could then have their own mains lights, or better/safer to step down to 12V next to the 4-way block, and then do the same thing but using 12V flex/lights instead?
Apart from safety issues (or maybe not, judging from Martin's post below) one point in favour of 12V would be that if ever we haven't got mains in the tent, we could hook up to the car battery instead (couldn't we?)
What sort of 12V PSU would be suitable for this? Presumably your average wall-wart would be much too low-rated; and the sort you usually use for 12V lighting indoors wouldn't be appropriate for a tent.
What I'm imagining is a single flex, with probably 3 daisy-chained, individually-switched lights (in-line torpedo switches?), no more than
20W each surely. They'd also need to be pretty lightweight, as this tent as no poles inside to attach stuff to like they did when I was a kid; here, the fabric's all suspended from external carbon-fibre poles, so the lights will hang from tapes attached to the seams, say. So they can't run too hot, either.
Point taken - safety is paramount here! I take it you're not suggesting that 12V could be inherently more dangerous than 240V from that point of view, are you?
As I say, I have looked around (Mary!) for a suitable system, but unless I'm missing something, there's nothing available along the above lines, and I don't believe it's rocket science to put together my own version safely.
After finding the Towsure mains tent lights would break the bank, and having experienced 12V lights not being bright enough in a large tent I purchased a
21" and 8" mains light + diffusers from TLC. Siliconed diffusers in place slightly so wouldn't fall off during transport and wired in using arctic coloured cable, so as to be tough, back to "mains unit" (via plug) in tent. Attached to centre of tent roof using hooks. Been using this for 3 years now absolutely fine.
A mate of mine made his own "mains unit" by buying a 25A RCD and 10A (16A?) MCB and water proof MK socket and mounting all in a waterproof small consumer unit along with 20meters of cable. Problems were, cost more than the £53 unit from Towsure, still only had one plug and had no tent pole clips, which is extremely handy. He did this after using 12V systems for years, but had had a couple of failiures of in tent mains to 12V power supplies (not too happy damp I presume) as well as melting and fire of the "cigarette lighter" style 12V connectors despite only taking 21Watts (<
2amps), it appears these type connectors suffer corrosion and heat up. Anyway he has had no problems with the mains lighting.
12V is more versatile. Your car battery woldn't have any favours done to it though (although I gather you're not using it often!) For anyone who does want to use 12V a lot a leisure battery is far better.
No, but do you really NEED anything fancy?
I'm not asking you, just putting the question for you to consider for yourself. I do that more and more these days - put questions to myself that is.
which is why you dont use twisted wire connections, use a proper connector like a choc block. Its only if youre going to use the system for long periods without any inspection that you'll need cord grips: if so, just use standard 80p mains flex joiners. I had assumed the OP was talking about 1 weeks use between inspections.
A worn switch isnt going to set fire to things. All switches spark but the sparks do not get out of the casing. Switches have been designed to not cause fires for a long time now.
certainly a
theres nothing unsafe about bell wire. Its only unsafe when used for mains becuse the insulation isnt mains rated, and of course it lacks the earth and outer insulation needed at mains. It is quite happy at
12v, and is still being installed in peoples houses for low power low v circuits like bells.
If choccy blocks are unsafe youll need to rewire your house.
Well it might be. Sparking and overheating are generally products of the amount of current flowing, not the voltage. For a similar wattage bulb you're going to have 20 times more current flowing at 12V than at 240V.
Its your call. If we're talking outdoors I'd much rather have 12v in sleeping quarters than 240 myself. Safer, simpler, cheaper, and maybe a bit more versatile. I wouldnt want to sleep with 240v outdoors.
(couldn't
yup, and this deep cycling is fine for short term use. Its only if you were doing it week in week out that youd need to get a deep cycle battery. 10 deep cycles on your car battery isnt going to have any noticeable effect on its life.
Basically any 12v psu that gives the curent you need to run whatever bulbs youre using. If say you use 3x 21w 12v bulbs, thats 63w/12v =
5.3A, so youd need a 12v >5.3A supply.
by far, yes, theyre typically 0.3A.
that would be fine, if youre only filament running bulbs. Dont run other things off it tho. Also note they have minimum ratings as well as max, your chosen unit would need t be happy running the various possible wattages that may be used. That might prove a sticking point for some of those units, but a toroidal non-electronic one would be quite happy running anything from 0 to max rating.
yes, I'd rule out halogens myself, stick with car tail lamps or similar, and put mechanical covers over them to keep sheeting off.
Gas mixes / travels very fast. Outdoors you wont get an explosion from a small gas leak, it dissipates too quickly. Obviously you dont want to install faulty switches that arc away, I doubt youd do that.
suggesting
it is in theory, but its a non issue in reality. If you were in a mine where gas couldnt escape, it would be very different, but I presume youre not :) 12v lighting runs at 20x the current of 240v, so there will be more sparking in switches, but it really is not a safety issue. Even less so that in house kitchens with gas hobs and wall switches.
Any bulbs over about 5W can get seriously hot - hot enough to melt plastics (though not to set fire to stuff). In our caravan I have in the ceiling light a 21W bulb[1] which I've had to rewire more cautiously after finding the choc-block it was connected to practically dripping molten plastic. I also have a very low wattage bulb which we leave on at night since it can be _very_ dark on a campsite in the country at night. However it's surprising how low wattage the light needs to be not to seem over-bright once your eyes get accustomed to its light. I keep toying with the idea of rigging up some fairy lights of pinpoint red, yellow and green LEDs but the Tuits are never available :-)
[1] it has a bit of mirror above it to reflect and spread the light down, and a glass ash-tray we got in Oxfam as a sort of faux cut glass diffuser.
12V linear wall warts are commonly available (i.e. from your local skip :-) up to 1A which gives you 12Watts which maybe enough. If you need more I don't see a problem with an electronic transformer as used for LV halogens. I have a 115W one that's potted and so quite waterproof. They're also very lightweight.
Unless the tent is huge I'd think 5-10W each would be plenty.
Or a string of LEDs. Some of the white ones are quite OK.
We bought some very cheap solar lights for our caravan in Wales. It's VERY dark there, no light pollution at all (the stars are wonderful, we even see shooting stars).
They're no good at all for reading or doing anything, really, but are very useful for leaving on during the night for toilet trips. If we leave the 'van on a very dark night - when there's cloud cover - we mark the guy ropes with them so that they're not tripped over.
They're left in the open through the day (they're waterproof) and they gain enough charge to last the night.
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