Electrical socket from light switch for cctv.

[John Williamson]

You're both wrong in this instance. the DVLA think that the second one contravenes the Construction and Use regulations in force at the time it was made. The law states that if ABS (Or any other specified equipment) is fitted to a vehicle by the manufacturers, it must be maintained in working order at all times. Read the words on a test certificate. They say that the certificate is evidence that the items tested were in a satisfactory condition *at the time of the test*. The required test items are laid down in the testers' manual issued by VOSA, and also, now, by the computer program which the tester has to access and have running while the test is under way. This has, for example, details on whether a particular vehicle should have ABS, and what the sequence of operation of the warning light should be or whether it should have a catalytic converter fitted, and what exhaust emissions are permitted for that vehicle. It is *not* a certificate of roadworthiness, or conclusive proof that the vehicle complies with the Construction and Use regulations.

[John Williamson]

Oh? Then most accidents *aren't* caused by excessive speed for the circumstances? (Hint - Excessive speed does not necessarily mean exceeding the speed limit) It has been proven (By New Jersey police, checking the accident figures for their high speed pursuit trained drivers, among others) that irrespective of training received, the faster you drive, the more likely you are to have an "accident".

"Accident" in quotes, because the driver should be in control of the vehicle at all times, therefore, almost any "accident" is caused by a lack of vehicle control by one or more drivers.

[Lieutenant Scott]

That doesn't disagree with my point. The DVLA want an ABS-fitted car to be safer than a non-ABS fitted car. Why? My car is now just the same as my neighbour's one which never had it!!

[John Williamson]

Except for being in contravention of the C&U rules.

There may be other differences which make it intrinsically more dangerous without working ABS than your neighbour's car which never had it. Pedal pressures may not have the same relationship to braking effort, making your brakes more likely to lock on wet roads, for instance. Without seeing the full specification of the braking system, it's impossible to say one way or the other.

As a user, you would be unaware of these factors, but the body which gives out type approval will have full details, and they are the people who decide whether the ABS is required to be fitted and work at all times or not.

[Lieutenant Scott]

We're not in New Jersey. I doubt the average yank can handle a vehicle at normal speeds.

THREE PERCENT!

before you go on about excessive speed again, that's a pointless thing to look at. It depends on the driver's skill what his maximum safe speed is.

[polygonum]

It's got f*ck all to do with DVLA *wanting* anything - and everything to do with the law requiring things.

Take it up with your MP if you don't like it.

[Lieutenant Scott]

It's illogical, that's all I'm saying. Why do you disagree that it's illogical? You can buy new cars without ABS, and they will pass without ABS.

[Lieutenant Scott]

The car certainly acted just like any other non-ABS car does.

It's simply a case of daft paperwork. Most likely they want everybody to have ABS, but they can't really force you to get it fitted post-manufacture - which presumably would be very expensive.

[Man at B&Q]

rote:

some reason the DVLA think a car with broken ABS is more dangerous than a = car without it.

result, no ABS.

No, one has a broken safety feature. That's why it fails the MOT. Just as a car with a broken reversing light will fail whereas a car with no reversing lights at all may pass.

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

rote:

't get dangerous currents from low voltage.

Thanks for confirming you need to get a clue.

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

rote:

g to current CAPABILITY. =A0In the case of the small load with broken earth= , the current CAPABILITY is low. =A0In the case of the car battery, the vol= tage is low.

Thanks for confirming you need to get a clue.

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

Thank you :-)

MBQ

[John Rumm]

Quite possibly not. A vehicle designed without ABS will not have its function integrated into any other capability. Whereas one that expects it to be there, may lose other non obvious functionality as result of the failure of the ABS or a part of it. Many traction control and stability control systems for example depend on the same sensors, and the independent wheel breaking capabilities as the ABS.

[Man at B&Q]

rote:

Quite a lot.

MBQ

[Lieutenant Scott]

or some reason the DVLA think a car with broken ABS is more dangerous th= an a car without it.

A broken safety feature is equal to no safety feature.

[Lieutenant Scott]

dangerous currents from low voltage.

What part of ohm's law are you having difficulty with?

[Man at B&Q]

at normal speeds.

g to look at. =A0It depends on the driver's skill what his maximum safe spe= ed is.

Being skilled or safe are neccesary (probably) but not sufficient conditions to be a good driver.

MBQ

[Lieutenant Scott]

current CAPABILITY. In the case of the small load with broken earth, the current CAPABILITY is low. In the case of the car battery, the voltage is low.

Answer my question.

[Lieutenant Scott]

Which wouldn't be on a cheap car either.

[Man at B&Q]

rote:

some reason the DVLA think a car with broken ABS is more dangerous than a = car without it.

result, no ABS.

Not when a driver is in a situation where they expect the ABS to work.

MBQ