Electric Shower choice - suggestions?

Have decided to go down the electric route (despite reading conflicting reports of poor flow rates/economical etc) since I took a look at a mates cheapo Wickes shower yesterday which only cost him =A355 and is

8=2E5Kw and he has no flow problems at all. I doubt his water pressure is that different from mine as he lives only 1/2 mile away.

So does anybody have any suggestions on what to stay clear of and what to aim for??? Thinking of a 10.5Kw unit to be on the safe side

Advice gratefully accepted as usual

Reply to
nonymouse
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In article , nonymouse writes

No sorry!, other than to avoid!. We had three of the poxy things before using a power shower and they have been !!EXCELLENT!! now for some Four years. Good hot powerful shower and not affected if anyone else opens a tap anywhere, no more burnt out switch contacts etc.

Look upon it as a good investment, I have!.

Get a Mira Event if they still sell 'em, well worth it, and not that expensive, bit extra plumbing but offset by not having to run a very hefty cable from the CU....

Reply to
tony sayer

I see your point but reliability issues aside, have seen electric showers working well and they do seem to have a lot going for them. Is there anybody out there that has a good thing to say about electric!!!? I'm starting to doubt what I've seen now

Reply to
nonymouse

The only reason you could think an electric shower works well is because you have never seen an adequete power or mains pressure mixer shower.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

If you are going electric - then go for the biggest you can find[1] power wise since it won't make that much (if any) difference to the cost of wiring it. The issue of flow rate is less important this time of year since the ground water is warmer than mid winter. Even a 12kW one is going to be hard pushed delivering even 5 litres a min in the winter. Many people find that 7 or 8 lpm is the point where you get a "nice shower" (depending a bit on the type of shower head), and perhaps double that for a "luxury" shower. Note however this is the subject of various holy wars! You can do the sums yourself to see what you will get for different input powers:

Input Power in Watts x 60 Flow rate in lpm = ------------------------- 4200 x temperature rise

Where temperature rise is the difference between the temperature of your shower and the incoming mains cold water.

Next, remember that electric showers only look cheap if you ignore the cost of wiring them up. Assuming you are competant to do the work yourself and you are going to ignore part P, then budget £100 for parts alone in many cases. If you are going to DIY by the book and pay the part P tithe, then add anything from £88 to £300 depending on the whim of your local council. If you are getting a "pro" in then expect to pay at least a £200 (but more realistically more) for them to wire it. Also remember that there may be a requirement to do additional electrical work to bring the installation up to minimum safety standards, particularly in the area of equipotential bonding in the bathroom, and also ensuring the main equipotential bonds for the whole installation are up to scratch.

On the plus side you will have backup way of getting hot water and you can have a 30 mins shower and not run out of hot water. On the down side you may need to run around to get wet.

[1] Check you have sufficent spare capacity on your electric supply. If you have a 40A supply, forget it. With a 60A supply make sure there are no other big loads that are likely to be used at the same time. With a 100A supply you ought to be fine. Also check if there is additional space in the consumer unit for another MCB/fuseway. If not then that adds to the complexity and cost of doing the wiring.
Reply to
John Rumm

Just ignore all the nay-sayers!!!

We've had electric showers for years and have never been disappointed. If pressure drops when someone else turns on a tap, just tell everyone you're having a shower and don't turn on a tap until I come out of the bathroom - how difficult is that?

Yes, I know that "power showers" and lots of other systems are "better" but sometimes it's just not practical to use other systems. I once lived in a static caravan for 6 months while I was "between houses" and, believe me,

*any* electric shower would beat the little trickle that came out of that shower - I could pee faster than that. Anyone who says that electric showers don't give a fast enough flow rate - go try a caravan shower and stop your complaining :o)

Steve.

Reply to
Steve

Thanks for your comments guys - should be easy enough to wire up as I've already located a suitable route for the cable (under floorboards, through attic eves and down through bathroom ceiling to switch) but will get a sparky in to wire it to the fuse box. Highest trip we have at the mo is a 45Amp breaker so will either need a new fuse box or separate MCD. Measured our water supply this morning using a rather rudimentary method of filling up a watering can and a stopwatch. We're currently getting 16 - 16.5 litres per minute from cold. On that basis could simply go for a mixer shower with no electrics involved - probably wouldn't even need a pump

Decisions decisions...

Reply to
nonymouse

Yes, they are an excellent back up for a power shower in case it breaks.

Yes they are excellent as a backup if the boiler breaks or the hot water runs out.

Yes they are excellent for showering late at night if you wish to avoid any noise from your power shower.

Yes they are better environmentally during a water shortage than your power shower.

Yes they are excellent to remind you why you got a power shower.

Bigger is always better for electric showers.

Reply to
Bob Mannix

"nonymouse" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I use an electric shower which dates from before I had adequate hot water, and it's not so bad I will go through the hassle of changing, which will prolly end with retiling the bathroom.

To avoid flow problems, get a pumped electric shower; mines a Triton T90i (a pretty bog standard one, but works well, and connect it to your cold water tank - if you've got one, of course).

This removes all flow variation.

And as others have said, get the most powerful possible, mine is 10.5, the biggest I could find; if I'd known of 12Kw versions, I'd have bought one. You'll be really glad of the kilowatts in the winter, as this is what limits your flow.

mike

Reply to
mike

Only because the water pumps in those caravans have all the power of an asthmatic gerbil! With a reasonable pump and a tweaked shower head it's quite possible to get a near stinging shower...

cheers, Pete.

Reply to
Pete C

I'm not too worried about having my skin removed because the pressure is so high - just so long as it is as powerful as the existing shower which is an AquaDart Hydraflo VS2 (no longer made). This is a simple mixer shower with a Venturi valve, but has always been more than adequate - except in the winter when we have to increase the storage tank thermostat to 70=B0C and leave it on for a bit longer to get a hot shower. Guessing that electric would solve this problem, even if it is a little weaker in the winter.

Currently considering a Mira Sport Max 10.8Kw (apparently the UK's most powerful electric shower according to the blurb!). Searched for 12Kw ones but I think this is an urban myth - couldn't find any - think the guy was probably thinking of Sellafield Reactor!

Reply to
nonymouse

Power shower = maximum flow, more energy (possible choice of fuels) and more water used, one more component to fail (and under pressure - my parents' pump went, soaking the kitchen ceiling)

Gravity shower = medium flow, minimal energy (possible choice of fuels), medium amount of water used

Electric Instantaneous Shower = minimal flow, no wasted energy (but most expensive) and least water used. Pumped good option if you cannot guarantee the input pressure. 10.5Kw sounds good!

I've got a Mira Excel thermostatic gravity shower and a Mira Sport 9.5KW electric. Not interested in an "invigorating" shower, my personal view is it's a waste of money and energy and water. Excel gives a reasonable shower all year round at 60 degrees water temp. As I recall the thermostat cuts out at 40 ish, so I don't understand why yours needs to be increased to 70. Sport is OK in summer, but way less powerful than the Excel. It's a bit puny in the Winter, but quite OK for getting clean under!

I opted for an electric second shower because I didn't think the hot tank would stand two showers drawing from it without going lukewarm.

Biggles Remove packaging before e-mailing

Reply to
Biggles

I managed to find this sales blurb from our old AquaDart Hydraflo ...

'Recommended hot water temperature is 60=B0C which ensures a shower of approximately 44=B0C can be achieved even in the coldest of winter conditions. Hot water supply should not exceed 75=B0C'.

Our water is typically heated for around an hour and a half on a cold winters morning with the thermostat on the storage tank set at 70=B0C. I'm assuming that the water is so bloody cold it never reaches that temperature, but strangely setting it to 60=B0C will result in a luke warm shower. I don't really understand what's going on but am fairly confident that a 10.5Kw shower will sort it (even if a little feeble in the winter).

Like I said, where not expecting power shower rates of flow, but since we're starting with 16 litres per minute, I doubt that we would drop 10 litres flow rate using electric. This would leave us at least 6 litres per minute - someone else suggested that 7-8 litres/minute was necessary for decent shower.

Reply to
nonymouse

Hi,

Might be worth checking there are no blocked strainers or scale blockages anywhere as that could reduce the performance of the venturi mixer.

And it _may_ be possible to boost the hot side only or both sides with a shower pump, using your current mixer.

It would be well worth calling Aquadart to check on the above two points

Also can/do you heat the cylinder with gas? If so it's much cheaper then heating with electricity, worth bearing in mind.

cheers, Pete.

Reply to
Pete C

In message , nonymouse writes

The mains flow rate is pretty irrelevant really. The governing factor is usually the rate at which the shower can heat the water, which is generally a fair bit less that the flow rate from the mains. 10 l/m or

20 l/m from your mains , you'll still get the same flow rate from the shower.

I wouldn't say 7-8 litres is a decent shower myself. Our pumped shower gives a quoted 10 l/min on it's lower setting. I would say that was ok, good enough but nothing to write home about.

I've never used an electric shower, even one of the higher rated ones that I ever considered more than just about adequate.

Reply to
chris French

What do the neighbours say to that then? (pressure drops can happen for more reasons than just taps in your house)

Reply to
John Rumm

You are right - you will drop more than that!

only if you want a cold shower...

The way an electric shower works is to stick how ever many kW of power it has available into its boiler. This is either fixed or may be selectable with a few fixed settings (low, med, and high if you are lucky). The actual temperature of the shower water is then dictated by the flow rate. The main temperature control knob does not actually directly control the temperature at all - it is a just a tap. As you turn it toward the "hotter" end it reduces the flow, giving the water longer in the heater and hence it gets hotter. Turn it in the other direction and you are tuning the tap on more, so the flow goes up and the temperature drops. Hence you can have high flow cool water, or low flow hot water.

So you choose the temperature, this dictates the flow. The actual flow rate from the mains is hence not relevant so long as there is "enough".

So in winter, if you have 5 degree water coming in, and want your shower at say 42 degrees, and you have a 10.5kW shower you will get:

10500 x 60 / 4200 / 42 - 5 = 4 lpm

You can only have more flow if you have it colder.

In the summer with the ground water at say 15 degrees it is a different story:

10500 x 60 / 4200 / 42 - 15 = 5.5 lpm
Reply to
John Rumm

I have an electric shower and have had for a number of years and am very pleased with it and am always surpised when I read comments about how poor they are . I do have very good water presuure though depite living on the 2nd floor of a block of flats so could be the good pressure that helps .

Stuart

Reply to
Stuart

Ok, I was wrong - hideously wrong in fact. Thank you to all those people out there that tried to put me of electric showers - you were right!!! Saw a Mira Event this afternoon and a Mira Sport 9.5Kw - both fixed up and working side by side.

No contest. Not only was the electric one pathetic, I couldn't get a stable temp from it either; right pain in the ...

The Mira Event XS was excellent, quite too and powerful - thanks one and all.

Reply to
nonymouse

Easily satisfied perhaps? ;-)

(to be fair a lekky shower is still way better than none)

Reply to
John Rumm

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