electric shock

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The standardisation involved more than just electrical things. But it should make things easier for the screw makers.

[Andy Champ]

100 actually. Both peaks.

Andy

[Dave]

In this instance, what is the best way to get a back box out of the wall without damaging the decoration?

I have come across this problem several times in my house, though I can wait and plan for the next decoration. I am thinking about relatives that ask for this to be done.

Dave

[Andrew Gabriel]

I fold in 3 sides against the back with a cold chisel, leaving only the one with the cable entry. Then it should peel out, but doesn't always go that smoothly.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Very carefully bend the sides inwards.

[js.b1]

and convert mere trade Registration Bodies into Regulation Bodies.

- Charitable front writes regs under guise of false safety statistics

- Commercial backend trots round the companies engineering "opportunities"

Extension of "MP writes broad law, stakeholder companies write the detail with a justification page if ever the civil servant is pulled up". The bog standard modus operandi of business is to fund research promoting their product/service/strategy once-removed from the company, which is then pushed by PR as "independent".

It is securitisation of electrical safety - regulation, education, certification, engineered upgrade cycle, commercial product push advertising, commercial product endorsement "because it exists you have to use it to comply with BS7671 correct materials & workmanship", affiliate advertising. American marketeer's wet dream.

Just like the health & safety engineered market, some good ideas taken to extreme levels. Then again, consider the VAT, Income Tax & NI, Business Rates and so on created by the monster H&S industry. Next one is Green... then food... then water... energy in its various incentive, penalty, carbon tax trading, goldman sachs is having a field day.

Who is doing the 18th regs, I thought BS were no longer to be involved?

Reminds me: that dodgy SWA cable I sent to BASEC about a month or two back? After useful replies nothing further, no replies to two recent emails. I suspect the Turkish manufacturer (Demes Kablo) is not playing ball with BASEC, leaving them in a rather embarassing position. Worse, I've now seen similar with other cables elsewhere and Atom Kablo (another Turkish manufacturer). Wonder when the electrical industry gets a shock :-)

[js.b1]

First, hope it was not pushed into a pile of wet plaster, because plaster holds anything in place better than any screw. Then you might have the "it might move, lets use cement, SBR, fibreglass flakes or... epoxy mortar... fischer epoxy fixings". Do not laugh, I have found an expoxy set backbox in block before now.

Sneak up on the backbox

- Remove the screw, grind off any nail, grind off your finger nails (hey I got the angle grinder in!)

- Use a HD stanley blade to cut down the box sides so breaking any bond there, but prefably not the cable.

- If extremely lucky the box will now be loose.

If not...

- Push a thin screwdriver down between plaster & backbox.

- Grind the screwdriver into the wall so you are levering against brick/block not plaster.

- Bend the screwdriver so the box side folds inwards.

- Bend the screwdriver back into shape or keep for "special tasks".

- If lucky the bond of the box rear to the wall will now be gone.

If not...

- Repeat screwdriver attack on the other sides.

- Eventually the sides will be folded in severely.

- The bond will finally break.

If the box will not fit out through the hole...

- Use the HD stanley blade again to enlarge fractionally.

- The faceplate is larger than the backbox remember.

- Typically it is the corner-fold tabs that prevent easy removal.

Do not yank the box out thinking you are home free.

- If you tilt the box you increase the effective height of the rear.

- Tilting the box on removal rips out the plaster skim at the last minute.

I suspect wrapping a backbox in masking tape might reduce the surface bond to the metal so making its future replacement easier. That said, I always use 25mm for lights, 35mm if any chance of a dimmer, 35mm for all sockets to provide enough wiring for retermination in the future and if any chance of grid or wago lever clips I use 47mm. That should sort out all problems - no doubt they will change the wiring accessory size :-) MK Grid 2G backboxes of course use 3 holes whereas every other backbox in the universe (except some cooker) use 4 holes - so oval/cables will not align :-)

Paper based wallpaper is bad news, because you can never repair it invisibly. Vinyl based wallpaper is easy to repair invisibly, just like carpets avoid hard creases and avoid separating lining paper from the surface. Likewise layers of lining paper are bad news, hard to repair levels. Restick wallpaper with proper wallpaper paste.

It is a trial of patience really.

[js.b1]

Balls, forgot the trick.

- Bend the backbox sides in a little to create a gap.

- Slide a pair of needle nose pliers over the backbox edge.

- Rotate/bend the pliers to pull the sides in.

Rotation is best because it is more controlled, no chance of ripping the plaster out.

That is how I replaced 16mm & wood backboxes with 25-35mm for a colleague.

- Box removed

- Screwdriver used to make wiggle space for cables

- Diamond cutter to deepen the box

- Cables slid through new grommet'd backbox holes, done.

Oh yes, I pushed the new backboxes into wet plaster so the next time will be just as difficult :-)

Bosch multiconstruction bits are wonderful re easy drill into anything.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Plowman (News)" saying something like:

Blessed are the screwmakers.

[PeterC]

For they shall inherit this thread.

[Peter Twydell]

LOL

If they can tap into it.

But they'll have to wait for someone to die.

That's my pitch, anyway.

[PeterC]

That's about stripped it.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Place is full of nuts again.

[PeterC]

Let's put a hex on 'em.

[Dave]

You are not kidding :-( I have tried this in my house, trying to perfect the technique, but I always end up ripping some of the decoration off the wall, along with some of the plaster, usually.

Dave

[Dave]

Printed and saved. That sounds an interesting way to do it next time.

Thanks

Dave

[Chris J Dixon]

We must all be unified.

Chris

[The Medway Handyman]

We must - careless torque costs lives.

[David in Normandy]

That is a new twist on the old saying.

[Peter Twydell]

You picked the right moment to say that.