1. Home
  2. UK Do-It-Yourself Forum
  3. Electric Help

Electric Help

I have discovered a situation in my house as follows. A cable goes down from the ceiling to a switch which then goes to a double socket and on to another switch which then goes back up to my sons bedroom

Cable down -> switch (A) across -> double socket across -> switch (B) up

-> bedroom

No idea why this has been done but I don't want to lift the recently laid laminate in my sons bedroom to do it properly. That's a job for the future. Anyway. I want to hide switch B in the wall so I can put something flush against the wall. I could just dig deeper into the wall and put a socket flush against it which may be okay (it would at least duplicate the current situation with no cable changes but is there something better I can use which would fit flush to the wall. All I need is something to join two cables together.

Thanks

Reply to
John
Loading thread data ...

Is this cable in a lighting circuit or a power circuit? . If the lighting circuit then I'd imagine the socket is something you need to attend to firstly. What do the switches control?

Reply to
NOSPAMnet

Buried connections should be crimped or soldered, not just screwed.

It would be best to find out which fuse/mcb this lot is on as well, whether its 5/6A or 30/32.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

What do these switches control? are you sure they are switches and not switched fused connection units that are feeding power to an appliance or perhaps another fused spur?

Are these surface mounted then? I would have thought a switch and a socket would sit almost equally proud of the wall surface.

We need more information (and piccies) before we can answer that safely. What you have at present (depending on exact circumstances) may be potentially quite dangerous.

Reply to
John Rumm

More info

It's basically one cable on a 30A main fuse in the box - power circuit. The cable just goes into the first switch. Then connects across to the double socket then to the second switch and finally up to the bedroom. The house is 20 years old and it's a nightmare of bad things.

Switch A goes down to a socket and controls that.

Reply to
John

Been surfing and what I have can be defined perfectly as a radial circuit -

formatting link
don't think it's dangerous. Badly done maybe as I'd have thought you'd want all the sockets at least on the same floor, but not dangerous.

Reply to
John

Yes .it's sort of like a Radial Circuit but not usually with switches on it . So it goes from the Consumer unit to a switch ( which has a socket coming off it ) then from the switch to another socket then to a second switch then up to the bedroom

What sort of switches are they ...not lighting switches I hope ....why does the first socket need a switch to control it ( or is it an unswitched socket?) and when it gets to the bedroom what happens there ..what is the arrangement there ?

Reply to
NOSPAMnet

Maybe switch is the wrong word. I'm not that au-fait with electrics. Sorry if I'm not making myself clear. They are fused switches with a cable leading off to a socket below. The switch just controls the socket. The bedroom is a normal plug.

So we have...

radial circuit

Fuse box -> switch A -> Double Socket -> Switch B -> Bedroom socket below controls -> socket controls -> socket

Reply to
John

Didn't mean to press send then. What I did was disconnect Switch B as I thought it stopped there just going down to the socket. Obviously then the socket in the bedroom didn't work as my son found out when he tried to listen to his CD player tonight (silver lining maybe...) so I need to put it back to roughly what it was but with Switch B unused and hidden flush to the wall.

Reply to
John

Do the switched look like this one?

formatting link
more like this one
formatting link
you turn off switch A, does it turn of the furthest socket in the bedroom too?

Are they surface mounted, with a box like this behind them?

formatting link
just flush with the wall like a normal light switch is?

Toby...

Reply to
Toby

sounds like it may be an FCU rather than just a switch. If the sockets are 3 or more way then it all makes sense and can be left alone. In fact it can be however many ways the skts might be, as long as theyre FCUs or high current switches, but not 5A light switches.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

|| || || || || || || || || || || || || ----- || ==========##==========| sk2 |==========##======= S1 ----- S2 || || || || || || || || || || ------ ------ | sk1 | | sk3 | ------ ------

Where the cable feeds straight through switches 1 and 2 with a socket connected in the middle. Operating the switches turns on or off sk1 and sk3, but has no effect on sk2 which always works?

If that is the case, then the design is ok, as long as the cable is rated for the full circuit design current. This would suggest it will be

4mm^2 cable or larger:

formatting link
an outer sheath size of 6.1 x 11.4 mm. Does this tally with what you have?

Now if the socket in the bedroom does not work you need to trace your way back. Does sk3 work when switched on? If so the fault lies somewhere between S2 and the bedrooms socket. Start by checking the connections at both.

Reply to
John Rumm

no - no effect at all

flush to the wall with a metal box behind

Reply to
John

Thanks - I get a little worried last night so I did some playing. I made sure there was no power at all going through the socket in my sons room and connected a torch bulb up to the cables coming out. I then stuck a battery on the bottom of the cable downstairs and, lo and behold, the light came on, if a little dimly. I just need to reconnect it all and then leave it all alone.

I hate electrics.

Reply to
John

Well now you are near to having it figured out, you may as well carry on and get it the way you need.

Reply to
John Rumm

True - it seems almost sorted. By the way, the diagram you've drawn out is exactly right. The only difference in the end will be that S2 will no longer be connected to SK3 which has already been removed.

What has amazed me (and it really shouldn't having been DIYing for years) is how much longer this has taken than the original estimate. An hour or two turned into the whole weekend especially when all the to-ing and fro-ing to DIY shops is taken into account.

Reply to
John

So returning to your question now, I take it you want to remove S2?

Two ways spring to mind: Blanking plate and a choccie block connector, or mend the cable with crimps and heatshrink so you can plaster over the join [1].

Only do the latter if the cable follows the rules about cable positions

- i.e. it is inline with a visible accessory of some sort.

[1]
formatting link
Reply to
John Rumm

drills into it so I'm digging deeper into the wall, placing the socket flush to the wall (not on the wall, but slightly beneath it so I can put the cupboard up) and visible with huge great pen marks saying "Live Cable here". When I move the cupboard in a few years time and find that I Might even remember there's a cable there then :-)

Reply to
John

I think that anyone who drills into a wall without checking for cables, pipes or whatever underneath deserves all they get...

Reply to
Frank Erskine

If people actually put the pipes/cables in the format they're meant to then the problem wouldn't arise.

Reply to
John

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.