Electric cars.

[Doctor Drivel]

** snip more senility **

[Doctor Drivel]

** snip more babble and senility **

[meow2222]

You say theyre expensive not because of energy use, but because of R&D, the need to tool up anew, and the fact that theyre produced on a small scale. Well, all these things mean energy use. R&D equals energy use, tooling up equals energy use, and smal scale production equals not getting the efficiencies of mass production, equals greater energy use per item produced.

When things are expensive it simply means they need a lot of our resources to get them. Everything is available, its all a question of what does it take to get it. And the reality is it currently takes huge expenditures of human and fossil energy to get Lithium batteries. All goods come down to energy: all raw materials are available, just a question of energy to get them. Both directly in terms of digging them up and processing them, and indirectly in terms of the energy needed to run the humans that do it, the legal/political games needed, and so on.

If Li batteries really didnt need much to produce, yet were temporarily selling at a high price, capitalists would be diving into Li battery production, and prices would drop heavily and quickly.

Maybe youre right in that they could, but today they dont, and its cost today that determines what happens in the few years ahead. If Li-ions use increases dramatically, I've no idea to what price point they will fall. But I'm not sure we can assume their use will spread far and wide, thus causing a major price drop: do you have a reason to believe they'll become cheaper than. NiCds, lead acids, etc? If not, those other technologies will continue to dominate many battery market sectors.

fossils will be around for decades yet. When deeply buried oil cost too much to extract, we'll move on to tar sands. We'll also have gotten TDP up and running by then, which will add to the oil stream. And cars will be doing more mpg, and many of our processes will be more energy efficient. And as oil prices go up, presently unexploited reserves will begin to come online. ISTR China having lots underground, and more gets discovered as the years go by. And as prices increase, various non-mainstream technologies will become more popular too.

which boils down to cost, which ultimately boils down to energy use

A purchase cost of 3 mill does not make them similar in terms of energy use. Road fuel use may be comparable, but with EVs that is the least of one's worries.

NT

[meow2222]

or perhaps add a shroud over 2 motors, and air duct from motor to interior. Forward movement then causes warm to be blown into the interior. A backup fan is needed during short stops, and electric heating for longer stops. All easy to control automatically.

NT

[meow2222]

Motors in the wheels mean considerable unsprung weight in the wheels. This in turn means much poorer road holding. Its fine for city buses, but used as a general runaround youre going to sacrifice a good bit of road handling ability. It'll be like going from a car to a commercial in terms of handling / roadholding.

Not that thats really a big problem, but public perception might be, after being used to cars of such high performance today. People will need to go back to the once universal ways of driving cars to their limits at normal travel speeds much of the time. Those without the brain to do that, and there are certainly some, will come acropper from their failure, so in short, poorer handling equals lower safety levels and higher death rates specific to your new design.

NT

[nightjar]

They also have to take into account the fact that most customers don't care enough to want to buy electric cars. I suspect that fuel cell cars will prove to be be more attractive. It is a lot quicker to recharge a gas cylinder than it is to recharge batteries.

Colin Bignell

[Doctor Drivel]

To their eyes, their job is to make as much money as possible. Socially irresponsible.

Most would buy one if they had the chance, having the range and speed. Once they experience the smoothness and silence that wins them over. People all like eco things. If there are two products, both the same price, one eco one not, they will go for the eco product.

Please read the thread and link given. Toshiba battey charges to 80% in 2 mins, 5 mins the lot.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Which means producing cars people want to buy. Which is why the Prius is a commercial failure in the UK.

[Doctor Drivel]

Our resident senile idiot, who make many things up, is at it again. A commercial failure with a waiting list? My oh my, such senility.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

There's no waiting list since the grant stopped. Apart from possibly caused by the recent fire at the factory.

It's a commercial failure because they lose money on each car sold.

[Doctor Drivel]

** wanting list oh senile one **

[nightjar]

I seriously doubt that.

You get smooth and silent with a good quality automatic car and they have the additional advantage that the soundproofing stops tyre noise as well as engine noise.

You do like using unsupported generalisations as if they were fact. My original point was that I doubt that many people really care either way. I would expect people to be more likely to buy on whether they like something like the colour or the shape.

When did you last spend 5 minutes, or even 2 minutes, standing in a petrol station filling up? Car fuel pumps normally delivery at 70 litres per minute. That means that I probably spend about a minute filling mine from about 1/4 full, but it has a large tank and, unless there is a queue to pay, most people have had time to fill up, pay and get back in the car while I am still filling up.

Colin Bignell

[Doctor Drivel]

"nightjar .uk.com>"

They would. Quiet, smooth, highly reliable, buttons to service.

Nonsense. Get an electric car and the difference is marked. After 15 years an electric car will still be quiet and smooth while ICs are rough.

What are you on about? An electric doesn't need bolt on stuff to make it quiet.

What you are saying is eco products are lies. Grow up.

Not so. If a car has a reputation of complexity and high service bills yet was brilliant to look at people will not buy (Citroens come to mind, although not deserved) .

I wish it was that fast. 15 mins yesterday.

You really are childish and silly.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Given the Ford Focus sells more in one month than the total of UK Prius sales there's no 'wanting list' either, dribble.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Do your engines go 'rough' after 15 years? Haven't you heard about servicing?

Of course the cost of the three battery packs you'll have got through in

15 years would have bought several new engines...

Sigh. Most of the noise on a decent modern car comes from the wheels - not the engine. Of course your car is probably a Lada, so forget the last bit.

They've not been brilliant to look at for years. Ordinary, more like.

It took you 15 minutes to fill a Prius? Good grief. Another reason not to buy a 23 mpg car...

[Doctor Drivel]

He clearly has a clue.

Probably no new batteries as they are guaranteed for 8 years, with expected life of 12.

** snipe senility **

Too painful to go on any more with him.

[Doctor Drivel]

** snip more madman senility **

[T i m]

And after 3 years the Focus would be worth more ..

Timmy

[T i m]

I think the US cars (possibly UK too?) have a 'bladder' in the fuel tank and there have been problems with that too ..

Didn't we cover the 'issues' of roadside mains charging a big bank of batteries in 5mins in previous threads .. we *still* don't have full sized power stations at the back of petrol stations do we ..(even if the batteries *could* take it)?

Timmy

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In the UK? Proof, please.