Electric Bill - Is this Eccessive?

[Mary Fisher]

Nor have we. and we're in their 'vulnerable' group :-)

Mary

[Derek Geldard]

Earlier in this thread I promised to make some measurements comparing a 60w GLS filament lamp with a claimed to be 60w equivalent CFL. So I dutifully bought a 60w pearl GLS lamp from Tesco (16p) and set up an experiment with a luxmeter (taped so as not to move) on the outside of the lampshade.

The GLS lamp reached 330 Lux at 5 sec. and maxed out at 350 Lux within

10 seconds.

The (brand new) 13 watt CFL reached 140 lux at 5 sec. and reached 240 Lux at 2 mins more/less maxed out.

A (1 year old) 13 watt CFL reached 80 Lux at 5 sec. and reached 124 Lux at 2 minutes more/less maxed out.

So after 1 year of use my feit electric 13 watt CFL gave out less than

25% of the light of a 60 watt GLS filament lamp within a reasonable few seconds of waiting, and never got above 35%.

Comparing the brand new and 1 year old CFL's, it appears the light output is down 48% in 12 months.

Q.E.D.

DG

[Mary Fisher]

Not so. The light output from CFLs might not be as high as the GLS (I don't believe that they are) but they give out enough light to prevent us oldies stumbling, which is what David was saying.

Mary

[Bob Eager]

Presumably that's what the manufacturers mean by 'equivalent' then...not equivelent in light output, just 'bright enough'.

More marketing greenwash.

[Frank Erskine]

I've tried a GE "Extra Mini" 11W (supposedly ~ 60W GLS) blub here in the study, and it takes a couple of minutes to get to "full" brightness. I'm not over-impressed - the light's a sort of slightly orangey yellow. If it was the only light source in the room I'd ditch it.

Oddly enough, looking at the box it came in (I got two at the time), you are told not to use it with a timer - I wonder why.

Its life is quoted as 8 years. I wonder how many people could be bothered to record its effective life or even remember from where they bought it...

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

Frank Erskine typed

I have one atop my stairs; it's OK for that location, though I find the delay getting any light from it a little galling.

Mine came from Screwfix (GE 11W Extra Mini). There's an even chance yours did too ;-)

FWIW I do record blown bulbs...

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:50:41 +0000 someone who may be Frank Erskine wrote this:-

I suspect that for everyone who complains about the colour of a particular lamp there are 100 people who don't see what the fuss is about.

They shouldn't be used with some electronic timers, for reasons discussed in this group from time to time.

The first such bulb I bought is still in my living room, 25 odd years later. Others, which see more use, fail occasionally but generally after a decade or so of use.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

They are sold on the basis of increased efficiency. Like dribble and his boilers it makes no sense to claim false results. They should be compared to the actual output of a GLS filament type and allowance made for falling output as they age. After all, you can same energy by simply using a smaller GLS type than before.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

They can be used with a timer provided it has some form of mechanical switch contacts - purely electronic ones won't work. So since they regard the average punter as thick they just say it won't work. However, with the increased popularity of them. I'd say it's up to the timer makers to find a cure. Battery operation as per some thermostats would do it, if you need one to replace a simple switch.

Another example of poor advertising. Their working life will be in hours so depends on how much they are used.

[John Laird]

As the discussion is about saving energy, then I see this as broadly equivalent to turning your heating down, on the basis that 1-2C cooler is still "warm enough".

It is annoying that the LE bulb manufacturers had to make excessive claims about equivalence, but then one of the biggest is Philips, who of course invented "perfect sound, forever" when the first generation of CD players was launched...

-- "Science asks why. I ask why not."

[Mary Fisher]

...

Spouse always writes the date and source on the base of the bulb before using it.

He's twice had them replaced by the supplier when their lifespan was less than it should have been, there was no argument.

Mary

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

"Dave Plowman (News)" typed

Yeah, my GE Extramini 11 watt jobs boast 15 years (if used for 2.7 hours per day).

What's wrong with stating 15,000 hours?

[Dave Liquorice]

Or someone not bothering to find the * that says what useage this "life" is based upon.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I've got a first generation Philips CD player (top loading) which still works as does the first CD I ever bought. And the sound from CD is as near 'perfection' as the recording engineers care to make it. Of course these days loudness rules so any attempt at true high fidelity seems to have been abandoned.

[Adam Funk]

My electricity and gas supplier used to give the same discount for standing order and direct debit, and I had control over the monthly payments.

Last summer they discontinued the SO discount. As I expected, they've taken advantage of the DD mandate to jack up my monthly payments. Since then I've been arguing with them over the amount and have had to resort to using the DD guarantee to recall every other one.

[Mary Fisher]

They don't increase the payments without telling you in advance so that you can discuss it with them. Reviews are in April, when if you're in credit by more than £50 you are refunded the whole amount of the excess. If the credit is less than £50 you can ask for a refund. You can also negotiate the new DD payments then - or at any time but they prefer April.

Mary

[Adam Funk]

Ha, ha. Npower sent me a letter to say they were increasing my DD to a ridiculous level. I wrote back that I rejected that request and demanded a reduction to half that amount until they provided a detailed calculation. They started charging the high amount anyway, and have continued to do so despite several further letters clearly rejecting the increase. They are still charging the high payment and have not provided a properly detailed calculation yet. So now I have to recall every other payment. Is this what you mean by discussing it?

In my experience, as outlined above, they don't negotiate --- they unilaterally raise the payment. When I used to pay by standing order, they negotiated --- and every year they agreed to my calculations, which were consistently lower than their "estimates" --- because they were unable to grab all the money they wanted out of my bank account.

[Jim Alexander]

Yep, Powergen bluntly tell you your payment has been reviewed, along the lines of a pay review methinks. That said they seem amenable to refunding any surplus on request (now is a good time) and you can set your own payment online down to the par figure or stupidly high if you want.

just interested to know what "excuse" you use to recall a properly notified amount?

Jim A

[The Wanderer]

Yes, that's happened to me on a couple of occasions, but I 'phoned them and told them it was too high and agreed on a mutually acceptable payment, no problems.

[Mary Fisher]

Sorry, I didn't realise you were with NPower.

Why not change your supplier?

Mary