Drill with synchromesh????

Eh? The 'kickdown' position does just this. It gives you a combination of maximum power from the engine and maximum change up speeds from the box. The box is designed to change up at the best possible revs for maximum performance under these conditions. True you could lock the box in any gear and over speed the engine if you wanted to, but that was a pointless operation.

It's true some B-W 35 models didn't allow kickdown to first at speeds well short of the maximum into first, but they all would do auto change ups at maximum power. If yours didn't, the chances are the cable controlling the box was badly adjusted. And since this also controlled the line pressure, the box would wear out quickly due to slipping.

I wish I had a pound for every old Rover P6 or XJ6 I've come across with this cable not correctly set. The vast majority of pro mechanics, let alone DIY owners didn't seem to understand its functions and invariably bodged things. But it was a poor idea - it's much better to use engine vacuum for the main function with a separate kickdown mechanism.

But in any case, this was just a maker using too weak a product for cost reasons. It's not intrinsic in the principle. Although most modern autos have managed to replace some brake bands with clutches. My SD1 with a three speed box has three multi plate clutches and one brake band. The Model 35 you refer to had two of each.

Yes - there's no need for a smooth change on a drill. But what you can't do under power is 'swop cogs' in the old way. You'll break the teeth.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)
Loading thread data ...

But someone brings one out every few years. My parent have a Honda with a CVT (rubber band drive), but it's only a couple of years old, so that's not much to go on.

Reply to
Chris Hodges

They do. The last Ford one was also withdrawn from sale after a couple of years.

A mate who 'fixes' cars (cheaply) for a living says it's a nightmare trying to source decent secondhand CVTs. They are in such great demand.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

AFAIK it was only DAFs and Volvo badged DAFs that used rubber bands (I had a DAF 66 once). All the current CVTs use a steel belt with metal blocks on it and the belt pushes rather pulls. My Jazz CVT is a joy to drive and given the mileage I do is not likely to wear out.

Reply to
Tony Bryer

I reckon all CVTs have the steel belt.

DAF rubber band drives were called Variomatic or somesuch. The name CVT is later.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Yes, AIUI the CVT transmissions use a type of flexible steel belt, but the DAF Variomatic use two rubber / fabric belts.

Reply to
:::Jerry::::

Think they were just fairly normal 'V' drive belts that you'd find on machinery?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Sort of, machine belts don't normally transmit 20HP each. The DAF was a CVT transmission-(constantly variable transmission), the brand name was Variomatic. The reason for going to steel belts, AIUI, was the problem of the rubber bands stretching under load, so when the unit went from drive to over run, the stretched belt did rather nasty things, like trying to free itself from the pulleys etc. It also used a standard clutch assembly, which could have zero slip if your foot was a bit careless, leading to nasty rubber band burning smells on occasions.

Standard Borg Warner type auto's, may be inefficient, but they have a very high driver tolerance if built correctly, I've never had one die under 180K miles.

Regards Capitol

Reply to
Capitol

You have to remove your foot from the accelerator obviously. But long before electronic control gearboxes came along, this was the way synchromesh boxes on the old Group 1 rally cars had to be used to get sensible changing times, especially as your left foot was on the brake of course, having replaced heel and toe around this time as the preferred method.

Of course for Group 4 you could fit a crash box which helped.

But the RS2000 synchro boxes easily lasted the rally and were then re-built, which is certainly equivalent to a year's normal wear, not the five minutes quoted.

Reply to
G&M

Williams built an F1 car using one in late 80s but it was banned before being used. If they had been allowed to race I bet the technology would be well developed now.

Reply to
G&M

Surely that should be Continuously Variable Transmission.

Reply to
usenet

Yes

Capitol

Reply to
Capitol

As was pointed out by Andy Dingley, the B-W 35 was a bit marginal when used in fairly powerful cars - it was, after all, designed for roughly 1.5 litres originally.

I had a Rover 3500 with one, and re-built it twice. Although on both occasions something broke rather than just wore out.

The GM box in my Rover SD1 made about 130,000 miles, but was very sick when overhauled. Needed quite a few new parts other than service items.

I reckon it's rather luck of the draw how strong the box is the maker specifies.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

'Five minutes' was poetic licence, but if you consider the size and type of clutch used on an auto to handle the full engine power - it's perhaps

6" in diameter and a wet multi-plate design, similar to a motor bike, and then the size and surface area of the baulk ring in a synchro hub, it's rather obvious it's not intended to do much hard work.
Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

I guessed. But in fact if careful (and good at it) one could change up all the car's life and not have a problem.

I don't think diameter is the main factor with a clutch. An F1 is smaller than this after all and it's near 1000hp. Material choice and removal of heat is the key to reliability.

So don't make it do much hard work. Clutchless changing doesn't involve just slamming it in and hoping for the best - though certain drivers seem to think it does :-(

Reply to
G&M

I used to drive my parents' Mini like that. It was a '59 Austin Se7en with the original 3-synchro magic wand box, not the later all-synchro baulk ring type. I found it was easier if I pressed the dipswitch with my left foot in order to get the timing right (not at night of course:-).

The synchromesh on those boxes didn't last long anyway, so I had to double de-clutch on my driving test. That was nothing to do with me driving clutchless of course (my mum had previously learnt to drive on that car - say no more).

Reply to
Richard Porter

The early boxes were cone synchromesh but soon replaced with baulk ring. The all synchro boxes were very much later.

I don't know why it took so long for BMC to introduce baulk ring synchro to the A Series box - the B Series one had it in the early '50s.

The Mini probably made the problem worse - the extra inertia of the transfer gears.

It's probably easier to change gear without the clutch with no or poor synchro anyway - it tells you if the revs are wrong much sooner. ;-)

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Good box - internals were used in the Cooper Climax F1 car as well I believe.

Reply to
G&M

I very much doubt it. It was barely up to handling the torque of the original Mini. Later ones were beefed up.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

That was the old 1.5 litre F1 and it only had to last 3 hours. I expect the parts were selected and heat treated though.

Reply to
G&M

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.