drawing up a lease for expensive piece of kit

[misterroy]

Hi , my wife is trying to lease a loom from a private individual, the loom cost around =A315000 new, or used, the last ones went for =A33000. The looms are about 15 years old. We'd buy a used one if we could, there are no new ones available. Any loom we find will be 15 years old and probably it hasn't been used lately so some parts on it may be on their last legs. Under a normal lease surely the parts would be the responsibility of the owner to repair, but that does not seem to be the drift we are getting. The rental would be =A350 per month. Any suggestions how we can mitigate against landing with a big repair bill should we land unlucky? What could we put in the lease agreement and still keep the lease appealing to the owner, it is a struggle to get a suitable loom ta

[Nick]

Hi , my wife is trying to lease a loom from a private individual, the loom cost around £15000 new, or used, the last ones went for £3000. The looms are about 15 years old. We'd buy a used one if we could, there are no new ones available. Any loom we find will be 15 years old and probably it hasn't been used lately so some parts on it may be on their last legs. Under a normal lease surely the parts would be the responsibility of the owner to repair, but that does not seem to be the drift we are getting. The rental would be £50 per month. Any suggestions how we can mitigate against landing with a big repair bill should we land unlucky? What could we put in the lease agreement and still keep the lease appealing to the owner, it is a struggle to get a suitable loom ta

If this is a long term lease, I would suggest you take legal advice. A post to uk legal moderated might be cheaper. HTH Nick.

[GB]

Before you get a lawyer involved, surely you need to sit down and hammer out a deal with the owner of the loom? On the one hand, if you are paying £50 per month rental, you do not want to be saddled with a bill for effectively renovating the owner's ancient loom. On the other hand, if this is a fairly fragile item which is not really suitable for hard work any longer, the owner probably does not want to pick up the renovation cost either. You need to be absolutely frank with the owner, and it is entirely possible that he would choose not to rent it out to you after more careful consideration.

[Peter Parry]

"Normal" leases can be either owner pays or person leasing pays for repairs. Whilst owner pays is common for short term equipment lease and rental agreements long term ones often put the onus of repair upon the lessee. Apart from anything else it encourages them to look after the equipment.

[misterroy]

Thanks for the feedback, from what has been said, I think we'll try and go for a 60/40 split in the repair costs, we'll pay the cost of a repair then deduct 40% of the repair cost from the rent. That way the owner is not out of pocket at all, and we are footing the majority of the repair. Bare in mind we are struggling to get a loom at all. The looms are probably sitting in sheds rusting just now not earning anything. Fair way to proceed?

[mark]

The owner would have to be an idiot or desperate to agree to that. You said yourself that you can`t find them so he is negotiating from a strong position. A leasing company for industrial equipment won`t be interested in a complicated agreement for what is basically a low value item. That`s if you can get a leasing company interested at all. What sort of loom is it anyway?My experience is Hattersley,Dobcross,Sulzer and a little Toyoda,in that I`ve moved and installed hundreds of them.

[misterroy]

It wont be a company we are dealing with, just an individual. The loom is a Bonas Griffith double width loom, there's one at use 5 mins into this video:

we should just run the risk of having to replace parts ourselves then? ta

[mark]

This is only my opinion.If the guy hires you the loom and you want maintenance built in he is going to have to factor in an additional sum to cover himself in the event of breakages,wear etc. Being a manual machine,I wouldn`t think that would be a lot of money but it`s crystal ball gazing so will tend to be higher than what it should be. If it was me,I would stand the maintenance and accidental breakage cost myself but ask the guy to carry the risk for the first few months or first year of the hire. If he has confidence in his machine it shouldn`t be a problem. I think it`s a matter of sitting down with the owner and agreeing a deal which is then put into writing. If this deal states that you will hire the machine for a fixed period it would be better to run it past the legal guys before signing anything as you could find you have an expensive weight around your neck. I take it you have experience with these machines and can assess the condition of the machine? I served my time in Galashiels in the early sixties,behind every door there were looms by the hundred. Mostly all gone now. If you want to discuss it,my email works.

[GB]

There do seem to be an awful lot of small moving parts on that loom! There's no way that you can find one to buy? That way, whatever money you plough into refurbishment you get the benefit of.

[Tim Downie]

OT but did you know that you can actually post a link to the appropriate time segment of a youtube video? Just pause the playing at the appropriate spot and right click on the "slider" and select "copy URL at current time".

Tim

[Jules Richardson]

Is there a maintenance document for it floating around the 'net? I've found that a lot of older manufacturers of mechanical things were quite good and publishing such things, and enthusiasts are often good at scanning them and making them available online (but by "older" I'm talking many decades; I don't know how much luck you'll have with something that's only 15!).

If it works now though, and if you have something which tells you what needs oiling/cleaning and how often, and if you're confident you can carry out routine maintenance, then I'd think that chances of it needing any parts replacing is minimal.

Finding the maintenance guide first (if it exists) might be wise though, just so you can make an assessment as to whether the current owner has been looking after it prior to signing anything!

cheers

Jules