Double glazing

[Bill]

The house has double glazing in wooden frames. Over the years we have had a couple of misted up units replaced by a friendly family of joiners, plumbers and general do-anythingers. Sadly they have now all gone to god.

We now have one room where the 2 units in the frame have internal condensation. One is none-opening and approx 76 x 53 cm, the other is

105 x 47 in a hinged wood-and-rot frame that mounts inside the main wooden window surround

A local well-regarded gazing company has quoted approx £400 for replacing the two units and the hinged wooden frame. I have said that if they find rot in the main frame, I will have to deal with it while the window is out.

The questions are: Is the price reasonable? It's a bit higher than I had hoped. Also, I would bodge any rot in the main frame by cutting out the problem area and putting in wood and epoxy glue/filler. Would there be any problem with this? I can get it smooth but it would be a lot harder than the original softwood frame. Would this cause any problems if the glazing seal touched it?

[stuart noble]

The amount doesn't sound too bad to me, but check to see what the materials alone might cost.

I'd get shot of the wooden frames unless you're really attached to them

[Bill]

Hmmm, that online quoter comes out with a price of £186 for all 3 windows and the full frame assembly. They only seem to do plastic frames, and they don't say anywhere whether that is a vattable price (I assume it is).

My price of 400 included VAT, so that implies a price of about £140 for the simple frame and the fitting, so I suppose that isn't _too_ bad

I don't like the plastic windows and doors I've seen on friends' houses

- they all seem to have problems, and daughter was trying to afford replacing her front door with a wooden one (she couldn't).

I think we'd have to change the whole house over with new glazing everywhere if we did change, as I don't think it would look right with one plastic and all the rest wood

[Phil L]

What problems would these be? - there's different qualities of windows, if you pay for 'Veka', they are usually good quality and will last easily 30 -

40 years

Then just do the elevation that has the rotted frame, that is, if it's at the front, replace all the front frames, then do another elevation whenever it's affordable

[Bill]

My experience may well have been with cheap(ish) windows and doors. For example We used to visit someone twice a day to check that his carers had been and to chat to him. Both his front and back doors had problems, and often I had to do a fair amount of lifting, shouldering and key jiggling to get in to the house at all. He said some windows had problems with the fittings and he hadn't been able to find anyone who could supply replacement hardware that would fit. We are quite high up and south facing. Some plastic shutters on the frontage have weathered badly and have started to break up, and one blew apart in the recent winds. The wooden windows are just over 50 years old and generally OK and I can gouge out and fill any rot when I see it.

I don't want to get into an argument about wood v plastic, but I like the look and feel of wood and don't feel the same way about uPvC. Of course it may be that decent uPvC looks so much like wood that I don't recognise it!

[Jonathan]

Good aluminium is much better than both

Jonathan

[Tim Watts]

On Saturday 23 February 2013 17:14 Bill wrote in uk.d-i-y:

DG panels are *around* 70-120 quid per m2 depending on coatings and gas fill options (geography applies!).

You have about 100 quid's worth of glass +/- 20%

However, if you mean to replace the window with a new frame (into the main frame) then it could well get to 400 quid. Is this wood or uPVC?

Wouldn't have thought so...

[Phil L]

That's down to being fitted badly, upvc doors need 'toe & heeling' to make them close properly, unfortunately lots of fitters don't have a clue about this and they sag in the frame, making them almost impossible to open

He said some windows

[Alexander Lamaison]

The glazing seal should never touch anything except well-spaced plastic packers. The reason DG units mist up in timber window frames is not because they are timber, but because the panes were installed using outdated methods suited to single-glazing.

A DG unit must have a minimum of 3mm ventilation all the way round so that it is not left standing in the moisture that inevitably gets past any seal. This is usually achieved with a couple of packers at the bottom (setting blocks) and some at the sides. Where the side ones go depends on if/how the window opens (google toe-and-heeling).

You can still use epoxy for the filling because the unit will not be touching it.

Please don't. There really is no need nowadays as so much more is known about timber design now. In particular, timber windows should include a ventilated bottom bead to let the moisture escape. Basically you fix the bottom bead so there is a gap underneath is for air to flow in and out.

Here is a useful link:

As for £440, that seems a lot for just the glazing unit and about right if frame joinery is involved.

Alex

[Bill]

In message , Alexander Lamaison writes

snip

Thanks, Alex, That is all really useful info, and it gives me something to talk to the glazing company about. It now seems to me that if their joinery contractor does a modern job in decent timber, the price will be OK.

The Ron Currie site and the links it led me to have certainly provided plenty of decent reading matter. Their videos probably won't lead to the red carpet at the Oscars, though.

[Alexander Lamaison]

I love them :D I can't help but wonder if he's being a bit ironic.

Alex

[Jim K]

tho nothing "new" in reality - I have some 7 year old timber windows built on those exact principles - (Jeld Wen)

Jim K