Is there a standard protocol for replacing a flush door with a panelled door?
If the frame is out of square, which it often is, and there is no budget/requirement for adjusting the frame - does one keep the door square & leave the frame unsquare - or trim the door to fit the frame?
To my mind, with a flush door it would be best to trim the door to an angle to fit the frame.
But with a panelled door, trimming the door to an angle would look awful because the horizontal cross member would be thinner at one end. Better when the door is closed, but awful when it's open.
So, assuming trueing up the frame isn't an option, is it best to have a slightly uneven gap at the top - or an uneven top rail on the door?
Of all the doors I've hung the frame has been put right all the time ie if there's a gap at the top which is not true I have cut a piece of wood to a taper to level the frame.
I mean you cant go round making an unsightly door after the customer has just paid £60 for the door.
I certainly wouldn't be happy if I paid someone to hang a door and ended up with one that either had angled stiles / rails or did not hang properly in the frame. I think you should expect to have to true up the frame and price the job accordingly.
The OP would be specious if we were not familiar with his business, as it is of the nature of the "how long is a piece of string" argument.
As long as the customer is advised about the problem it is best not to get involved any further than doing as they say. There may be another fault that will only come to light if the OP messes around with the frame.
If he comes a cropper there after trying to fettle something he wasn't asked to do and won't be getting paid for, he will only have himself to blame. And if he does it right he will only get paid for doing what the customer thought he should be doing.
Most of the time most people do not realise there is a problem with something they have never thought about and won't thank you for pointing one out if there is.
With a door frame it might be a loose fitting. Putting a few screws in it might solve the problem or make it worse.
If there is a large gap -something in the region of an inch, I'd not touch the job unless the customer was willing to have the frame sorted. And if it only took a couple of 3 1/2" screws to fix I'd tell them there was no charge.
Hopefully they'd be pleased and you could get more work from them in the future. But as the OP says, there is no money in the job. So why do it? If they were happy with the flush door and a duff frame, let them sort it themselves or get it done properly.
The alternative is to do the job properly at one's own expense and maybe find the wall is one of those crappy tin things held together by
3/8" plasterboard or rotten breeze block; impossible to sort out.
I'd rather just have a flush door or live with a skewed panel one.
However it is really a matter of degree If the frame is slightly out of true a minimal taper on the door say 3mm side to side and a similarly tapered gap, by rebating one hinge slightly less than the other, could take up about 6mm. Beyond that I would look to true up the frame, depending on the wall to which it is fixed, or walk away
Done this very recently! As others have said (and in my case), 6mm is certainly doable via removal from the door top and does not look unsightly or obvious.
I've recently experienced a slightly different problem. I replaced a number of cheap paper cored panel doors with solid ones. I had no problem with the sides of the frames being out of true (in the sense that they were essentially parallel) but found that most of the frames had a twist. That is to say that when the doors were closed gently the top bottom struck the architrave before the top or vice versa. The difference is typically about 5mm. Before this was hidden because the old doors flexed to accommodate the error but the new doors are simply too stiff.
My problem is that the architrave and the frame are a single piece of wood so the architrave can't be moved relative to the frame. The only solution I can think of is to fix a second architrave over the existing one and so position it that the door strikes it squarely.
I think you will find the doors are warped rather than the frame twisted(unless its actually been put in this way?) put door/s on their sides and look down the lenght of the door for trueness,this sometimes happens when they have been dipped.
Architrave is a separate piece used as a cover strip to make good the join between the plaster and the frame.
I think what you are describing is the rebate.
Close the door and slide a pencil down the rebate so that the line drawn is parallel to the door, then chisel off the rebate along that line to make a new section.
The door is now going to close deeper into the rebate than originally intended thus the lock keep may need resetting.
Other alternatives are to move part of the frame to suit; pull out one hinge by so many millimetres and reset the other deeper by the same amount or affix a small slat along the closing side of the frame to suit the warp of the door.
I'm seriously thinking of that option - no money in the job, lots of work, huge potential for nit picking, customers unwilling to listen to logical arguments - easier to 'just say no' to door hanging jobs. PITA.
George, the doors are truly flat. They're 35kg beasts with a chipboard centre and moulded panels on the out side. Hanging them was hard work but they close with a very satisfying clunk.
Weatherlawyer, thanks for pointing out my error - yes I did mean to say "rebate" I must have written "architrave" because I was thinking ahead to my idea of a solution.
I used a Trend router template to position the hinges on the door and reused the original hinge points on the frame. Thus the hinge side fits perfectly, the problems are on the handle side. I did think about chiseling the rebate away but I don't trust myself enough to get a good finish, especially where the rebate meets the floor and it becomes hard to smooth off the raw cuts.
I think that your suggestion of a slat is what I was trying to describe. An additional advantage of this solution is that it presents an opportunity to incorporate a proper sealing strip. I was in Germany last week and was again impressed by the fact that almost all doors there close against a plastic/rubber seal.
Are you sure the door stops (i.e. the bits that stick out from the frame that the door is closed against) are not separate bits of wood (this would usually be the case, although years of paint may make them look like they are part of the lining)?
one solution would be to remove the stops, fit the door latch in the required place, and then refit the stops (or new ones) so that they make neat even contact with the door all round.
the door is closed against) are not separate bits of wood (this would usually be the case, although years of paint may make them look like they are part of the lining)?
Thanks for your comments Jon.
Sadly the answer is yes. That was my first thought, I took a hammer and large cold chisel to the frame in order to prise off the rebate and found out that it was really one piece. The result - one ruined frame that had to be replaced. I don't want to have to do that job again.
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