Door frames and wonky walls plus silicone and toilets!

[GMM]

I'm about to fit a door to a recess which, as it happens, is just wider than the width of the door. Now, looking at the wall on what will be the hinge side, it's not plumb (surprise surprise) but slopes away so the opening is about half an inch wider at the top than the bottom. The plan is to make the frame up to fit the door (bracing to keep it square), then fit it into the gap and screw into place.

So, the questions are: What would 'the panel' use to space the frame? I thought I might wedge at each screw/fixing position, then fill the gap with expanding foam (which will be hidden by the architrave). I guess my concern here is that wedges might slip, compress or otherwise loosen over time - I was thinking of plastic ones (which I have in abundance), but I've a feeling that timber would work better. Is there a better way, eg to cut a wedge of timber to act as a fillet behind the frame (tricky to get the taper right)? Would this be a good use for adjustable screws? I've never used them before, but screws would be more appropriate than frame fixings here as the corner of the adjacent wall (where they will go) seems to be plaster over timber rather than brick and, I assume, adjustable screws would allow me to pull the frame into plumb, if necessary.

On another note (related only by being in the same job!), I shall soon be fitting a toilet and previous posts here have recommended bedding in silicone rather than screwing down. This seems well worth trying but there are approximately a squillion different types of silicone, so I was wondering if anyone could recommend an appropriate one to go twixt bog and tiles.

Cheers

[Bob Mannix]

Wedge with wood at the fixing positions to give vertical frame and fix tight with ordinary screws. This is the only vital bit and you should spend time on it.

Trim archtitrave so it follows wall and is parallel with frame.

Forget about expanding foam - it can be awful stuff and you aren't stopping draughts etc.

Decorator's caulk/acrylic fill gap between wall and architrave.

I would screw toilet down AND then seal interface between base and tiles with clear, 35 year, silicone mastic when all is cleaned up.

Cheers

[Bob Mannix]

I should have added - if you want the door to be a good fit, make the frame slightly small and put it in place. Then trim the door to fit. Sounds like more work but things shift and you may find it's less work.

[GMM]

Thanks Bob. That sounds like a tip learned from experience and easy enough to take on. I'm assuming that you would anticipate the frame 'opening' a bit during fitting, but how much would you allow - a couple of mm each dimension?

[Bob Mannix]

Well the experience bit tells me you can never predict! It may close a bit or open. Personally I would make the frame 5mm too narrow and use an electric plane. I find that the door comes off more than once to get it "just so". When trial fitting, fit hinges fully to frame and use one shorter screw in each hinge to door. When you have it right put all full length screws in. That way, if the hole starts to fail with all the in and outs of the screw you'll still have a solid fixing.

If its a new frame, fit the door and just tack the door stops in place (ie leave nails sticking out). This means when the lock etc is fitted, you can ensure a snug fit for the doorstops by repositioning (leaving room for paint (0.5-1mm) all round). If floor coverings not fitted yet get a door bar and leave a few mm clearance over that and trim door length. Take door off prior to carpet fitters coming (believe me you don't want them mucking it up).

[John]

I think the knack is to put the WC down onto silicone. I would get the screws and everything in place and wedge it up half an inch or so - inject a good bead of silicone and then let it down and pinch up the screws. You are trying to make a gasket.

[GMM]

Well, fortunately, I won't have any carpet fitters, as I've just tiled the floor, so that's one problem solved(!) Thanks for the benefit of experience Bob.

That's sort of what I would have done in the absence of other input but I have seen a few posts on here where people have recommended forgetting the screws altogether. There's a certain attraction to this, not only because I have tiled with electric underfloor heating and, although I measured and marked the screw positions before laying the UFH cable, there's always a suspicion that things could shift, so a single screw could wreck the whole plan. What I was hoping to resolve was what sort of silicone people use when they do this: The 'regular' stuff I've used before wouldn't have much of a hope of holding a toilet pan by itself, but I'm not really clear what properties would be best (ie high or low modulus etc etc). Clearly this is less of an issue when simply sealing a screwed-down pan.

[John]

The problem is that some pans have a very small "footprint" - so a heavy person a bit off-centre could cause quite a lifting force on the opposite corner!

[John Rumm]

There is a nice little trick you can employ here to get nice even gaps round the door without the hassle of having to shoot the door in (i.e. planing it to fit).

Fix the frame so that it is plumb and about 4 - 6mm wider than the door, however only fix the frame in the centre of the board so that the fixings are ultimately hidden by the stops. Hang the door, and then cut some small wedges (say 30mm long, tapering from 0 - 5mm), hammer these into the gap between the frame and the wall to adjust the distance between the frame and the door so that you get nice 2mm wide joints on both sides. Trim off the remainder of the wedges and then fit the architraves to cover all the mess.

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