Under the new VAT rules If I buy a pie in a filling stations where I have to heat it myself, Is it subject to 20% VAT or not? The new rule is that cold food is VAT free whilst hot food must have 20% added. So If I pay before heating it in the shop microwave is it therefore VAT free?
Same goes for take away snack bars that often ask "do you want it hot or cold?" If I buy it cold then hand it back for heating???
Mike
The whole thing's a minefield! There seems to be a query about freshly baked bread - which you won't eat until it's cold, but which might still be warm when you buy it.
The whole thing's a minefield! There seems to be a query about freshly baked bread - which you won't eat until it's cold, but which might still be warm when you buy it.
Good point, if I went to Subway sandwiches and have it with cheese and toasted, does that count as "hot food" because the roll is slightly warm and crispy, even though the filling is cold?
What about bons in the oven?
That reminds me of a small baker's shop near where I worked some years ago.
They fell foul of the need to charge VAT on hot food so stopped selling hot pies and got rid of the heated food display counter but still sold cold pies. However they always seemed to have a batch of pies ready to come out of the oven at lunch time.
dennis is "our" VAT expert.
I am sure he will be along soon with a reply.
When he does give a reply then just do the opposite to the advice in his reply. It's the only way of making sure you are correct.
In article , Mike Rogers writes
Nothing new there, hasn't it always been such?
As and aside I'd say that the 20% hike or not is negligible compared with the outrageous retailer margins on such pap. Apart from the animal fat in the pastry I'd bet the incidental meat content in such products would make them borderline suitable for a vegetarian diet.
I confess a past weakness for (cold) Ginsters buffet bars when they were first introduced at 79p, I still had the odd one at 99p but reckoned they could stuff it when the quickly doubled to a couple of quid. Wouldn't have one in a gift now.
That's one of the places the current problems started. Subway argued their toasted sandwiches (and their meatball subs) weren't hot food. The tax tribunal found against them (in Subway One Limited v Revenue & Customs [2010] UKFTT 487 (TC)).
Of course we wouldn't have these problems if we'd stayed loyal to looking through the glass at the traditional cold, curly-cornered sarnie bred over the decades under station glass.
It needs more folks to do that sort of thing. You can see folk in the local supermarket with boards up the sides of the trolleys (well ok, almost) not knowing or caring about the prices. I get quite a kick out of putting some overpriced gunge back on the shelf saying "they can keep'em".
It makes little odds, Dave. Your average working bloke (and lil old biddy) will be screwed, guaranteed. Errrr, I could've worded that better :D
B-) I guess it all comes down to is an element of the hot food a "service". Taking pre-cooked pies and reheating them is providing a "service", heating the pies. Pies that just happen to be hot out of the oven have not had any "service"...
The service station pie, self heated using the heating facilties provided by the service station I'd say does attract VAT, as there is the provision of the heating "service". So in theory if you buy cold and do not use the provided facilties to heat the pie then it's zero rated *BUT* it may depend on how the pie is classed as a food is it an "essential" or a luxury?
Plain biscuits are "essentials" thus zero rated but chocolate biscuits are "luxury" thus attract VAT at standard rate. So is this pie a humble "essential" steak and kidney pie or a "luxury" game pie? I don't know if the VAT regs make such a distinction, I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
IIRC there have been fairly recent fusses about Jaffa cakes (a cake or a biscuit) and Pringles (a biscuit or a crisp).
Not to mention gingerbread figures. If the face etc is simply incised into the surface - no VAT. Give them an icing smile and the tax man smiles too.
Chris
ISTM that if the VAT is chargeable because of the *service element* it should only be charged on the actual cost of providing that service. ie. electricity plus a bit of labour.
regards
No, its a value added tax, not a service tax.
That is, a hot pie offers more added value than a cold one.
At which point one could argue that any food that is not dug out of the ground or shot on the hoof and butchered by the consumer, should attract value added tax, but them be deeper waters.
Why we don't just call it a sales tax and be done with it.
But then any tax that makes exemptions based on what sound like clear cut distinctions that tirn out to be not so clear cut...is open to avoidance..
'Yes, sir, our package deal consists of a free car, and a hot pie costing £7500 and of course since the principal cost of the package is in its edible element, the package as a whole is free of VAT'
VAT differs from sales taxes in that the seller can deduct input tax - ie the effect is broadly a tax on the net "value added" by the seller. Lots of countries still have sales taxes which apply to the gross selling price so it might confuse overseas investors if we switched formally (or rather persuaded the EU to switch). But you can of course call it what you like.
No, if the pie is served above ambient temperature it will in future incur
20% VAT. Your "free car pie" must be served cold, frozen even if sold from an unheated market stall in winter!Mike
The technical definition of a biscuit is that it has been baked twice. Even the numpties at the Revenue should know that. The clue is in the name.
You arr of course totally correct. The car must come with a *cold* pie.
In message , Steve Firth writes
Oh FFS, that is from the French (WOCAB), and they can't made real biscuits anyway.
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