DIY Legality

Not really. I neither know nor care that ginseng is or who uses it. Unlike drivel I am not driven by hatred or envy.

Reply to
Tim Streater
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There is no minimum distance given in the regs regarding the distance from the sink/drainer. There are good practice guides that recommend that there should be a 30cm distance between sockets and the sink/drainer.

There are rules regarding the height of a socket above a worktop. But that is to prevent the cable on a plug from being strained because the socket is too close to the worktop. So not relevant to a switch.

Reply to
ARWadsworth

I am not even sure that what you see actually does amount to something "potentially unsafe and stupidity" (sic) - one would need more information first.

The location of the socket close to the cooker is not ideal - but not too much of a problem since its not in a location where it is likely to get direct heat from the hob. In reality its not substantially different from the location of many cooker points to their respective hobs.

The flex connected to the rear of the socket may be of concern since if the socket is fed from a circuit protected by a 32A MCB, it may not provide fault protection for that flex. We also don't know what the flex feeds, and whether it needs additional overload protection. Its possible that is just feeds the ignition circuit on a gas cooker.

The use of the plug in adaptor is somewhat unsightly, and an additional socket would be better - but from a safety point of view it only appears to be powering a radio and one other appliance, and so seems unlikely to represent an overload hazard.

There does not appear to be any particular elevated shock risk here. My main concern would be fire risk as a result of a flex with inadequate fault protection. Again we don't know what level of RCD protection the socket has, or the quality of any equipotential bonding in the kitchen etc so can't make any realistic assessment of other shock risks.

A person making an unsafe connection would also be responsible.

Say it turns out that it is actually an electric cooker, and the flex we can see is feeding it, and its normal 1.5mm^2 PVC flex that has been hardwired into the back of a normal power circuit socket - then yes there are serious concerns, it is unsafe, and the person responsible was not competent to do the work.

Reply to
John Rumm

Its above and to the left of the draining board, not the sink.

Personally I would be more worried about the crap audio quality of the DAB radio than anything else!

Reply to
John Rumm

Aesthetically unpleasing perhaps, but not a problem from an electrical point of view (it looks more like it is close to an upstand on the back of the worktop rather than the worktop itself).

Reply to
John Rumm

There's sea kelp, ffs. I like the bike, though.

Reply to
grimly4

I think what we see here is a direct result of Prat P legislation, where folks just carry on plugging extensions in and don't bother doing a proper job, same as ever. There's no excuse for the shoddy bit of wire hanging out of the side of the surface box, though - that's just gerry-built. Difference is, now they're not allowed to do a proper job in circumstances like this, which is why anyone with any sense and a degree of nous ignores the foolish legislation.

Reply to
grimly4

Reply to
ARWadsworth

It looks like a smooth-top electric cooker.

Reply to
S Viemeister

It looks like a gas cooker with a hinged glass lid.

Reply to
ARWadsworth

Hmm. I suppose it could be.

Reply to
S Viemeister

Given that it's not your house, what's you motive in posting this here?

Tim

Reply to
Tim Downie

My kitchen worktop usually has a cat asleep on it!

Reply to
ARWadsworth

I'm thinking that the flex that comes out at the left of the double socket disappears behind the cooker and then reappears near the floor just to the right of the cooker - it's the same white colour. Then it goes off to join the mess of cabling to the left of the Beko fridge.

Could be that cable just ends in a plug that's in an adapter plugged into the one socket behind the Beko.

Reply to
Tim Streater

As others have said more information is required to be absolutely certain as to the safety/legality of the wiring. However, the picture shows a 13A double socket mounted in a surface mount box with an apparent connection from the rear of the socket that may, or may not, be supplying the cooker. The cable from the rear of the socket appears to be no thicker than the two heavy flexes presumably supplying the kettle and microwave, i.e.13A flex. If on a ring main the cabling behind the socket should be 30A with 30A fuse. If an isolated socket, or spur off the ring main, the cabling behind it should be at least 20A. Either way a 13A flex connected behind the socket is not adequately protected and is therefore unsafe. It also is not adequate to supply the cooker, which should be on its own separate 30A circuit.

The only interpretation that I can see which might meet the IEE wiring regulations is if the socket is on a ring main and that cable is at least 20A cable (not flex) supplying a single or double 13A socket permanently fixed to the wall (a spur). Even then that cable should be fixed to the wall at the specified intervals between the two sockets to comply with the regulations.

Reply to
Old Codger

Perhaps... but then again, the last gas one we had, had a lift up top that looked very similar.

Reply to
John Rumm

the 4-way appears from the picture to take its power from only one of te sockets ...

Reply to
Ghostrecon

I'm with Tim S on that one; I think it loops round the end of the counter- top behind the cooker and is then visible on the floor to the cooker's right.

Also to the right of the cooker on the floor in the photo is what seems to be heavy-duty cable, so probably the cooker supply - and also a hint (just above the front bike wheel) of what might be a multi-way socket adapter.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the cable coming out of the socket box above the counter-top is actually more of a cable going *into* it - i.e. that dual socket box is supplied via the cable which loops around the edge of the counter, and is possibly fed from the multi-way adapter on the floor. I suppose that's less iffy than having multi-way adapters just sitting on the counter-top :-)

Note there there's also something to the left side of the cooker in the photo - I think it's a single socket with a black plug in it, but I can't be sure.

cheers

Jules

Reply to
Jules Richardson

Depends when it was done - the situation is more complex than it first appears, because there is another pile of spaggetti under the worktop including a partially visible extension block.

There is a recessed accessory box next to the cooker, but I can't see what is in it.

The switch above the sink is probably momentary for a waste disposal unit.

The wire to the surface mount double socket could be an input or an output (e.g. to the cooker (if gas)). It is more serious if it is an output because it will be unfused and a short could melt the [thin] wire. It is not clever as an input because a double socket in a kitchen can draw up to

30A (see below) and the cable would get very warm, although it would blow the fuse in the plug if plugged in elsewhere.

I can't tell what fuel the cooker is, if electric it should have a [45A] supply point, but I can't see one.

The radio and two other things appear plugged into the sockets, however we have a kettle (possibly 2), toaster, micro-wave and some sort of percolator on the top, plus a fridge down below.

Quite a lash up and potentially 6kW, so quite close to the maximum load on a ring main.

Since 17th Reg's only competent professionals are supposed to do wiring. It is not as prescriptive as gas (so a good DIY'er could fit a socket or lights, but not a consumer unit). If the tenants did this probably nothing would happen, but if the landlord then the local council might prosecute if there was provable overloading or similar.

PS Were they selling the bike?

Reply to
R. Mark Clayton

Hate. And I'm disappointed with her.

Reply to
Mr Pounder

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