a spurred SINGLE socket only HAS to take 13A. Because whatever is plugged into a single socket is done so on a 13A fused plug,.
And the cable should and will be able to take the whole 32A the ring is fused for.
Indeed. Typically I install unswitched singles below the worktop for each appliance space. These fed from the output of a 20A faceplate switch on the ring circuit mounted above the worktop. That way you are managing the size of load at any given point, and allowing easy isolation of the appliance without needing to pull it out first.
just what I did when I rebuilt my kitchen in 1989.
Less than a normal hob.
Here we are again. If the user is stupid enough to use both sockets behind the TV to maximum its their own fault and they deserve what they get.
And all 'users' are qualified electricians?
No, the stupid one with such a blasé statement is Denis who's always out - a little like the average bungalow, there's nothing upstairs!
Are you genuinely stupid dennis, or just being obtuse because you like arguing?
Try and comprehend, this has nothing to do with the user, and everything to do with the designer and installer. If the designer does their job right, the user can get on and use a system that is flexible, does what they need, does not give spurious trips. and remains safe.
You might like to mandate that a 32A circuit is dedicated to each and every double socket, but fortunately its not your decision, and no one else thinks its a good idea. So you may as well learn to live with it.
As a designer one has the freedom to make sensible choices about matching the installation to the pattern of use. This is a system that works remarkably well in practice, and has given the UK the safest electrical systems in the world.
If you are still unhappy about it, why not write to the IET with your objections and suggestions for the 18th edition? No point moaning about it here.
Not on any real car I've seen.
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 20:52:56 -0000, Unbeliever w= rote:
You seemed to miss Dennis's point entirely. He was taking the piss out = of John Rumm.
Having a system which can overheat without tripping something is NOT saf= e, is a BAD design, and should NOT be done by anyone who calls themselve= s qualified.
Where did you pull that one from? Nobody has mentioned seperate circuit= s. As long as you can't overheat something. The max load handleable by= any one point in the circuit (in this case the double socket) should be= equal to or more than the protective fuse or breaker.
Don't guess at patterns. Allow for what COULD happen. "Oh the user mos= t likely won't do this" is just not good enough.
Why can't he moan about people like you who agree with the incorrect 17t= h?
Indeed. And you are probably unaware that your hero dennis managed to start a fire using an induction hob. His first attempt failed as he did not realise his non magnetic pans would not work on the hob.
However, the fool went and bought a cheap iron wok to try and managed to set the thing on fire.
Try and comprehend that the designer is putting in a system that will be in place for decades. The users will die (hopefully not from design faults), other users will arrive, the designer has no idea what they will do in 5 years time let alone
You moan about it, I just don't do minimums to save a few pence.
Some idiot answering to "ARWadsworth" wrote in message news:je7718$ako$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me...
The idiot ARW doesn't understand that there are pans made of stainless that do work on induction hobs and the easy way to find out is try one.
Well yes but it was steel not iron and it was a warning about how fast the thin ones heat up, like about 5 seconds and a teaspoon of oil doesn't make much of a fire. However I now have some new pans with a thicker bas and they work fine
ARW being a childish bully type thinks it makes a difference to me when he keeps posting his cr@p. The reality of course is it makes him look like the idiot he is.
It really upsets him that I read his cr@p and treat him with contempt and ignore him.
Well unless you are talking about the current limit on the double socket itself (which if you wish to avoid, you will need to use single sockets), then we are actually in agreement.
This is a bit of historic dennis... don't worry about it.
Not really a logical deduction is it. The circuit can feed far more than one socket, so there is no point limiting its design current to something that just one socket can handle.
Engineering decisions are frequently made on the balance of probabilities.
Well he can, but its pointless because we don't agree with him. If he wants something to be different, then he would need to address his concerns to the people able to change the requirements.
Indeed, not that it makes much difference...
If you start with the premise that with a new installation, all the circuits are fundamentally sound. What needs to be addressed with the design is making sure there is adequate provision of sockets etc, in the places they are likely to be needed, and that the circuits selected are appropriate.
That means where you put sockets, and how many you install will reflect the anticipated use.
If there is only one logical place in a kitchen to stick a fridge/freezer, then that would be a good place to stick the non RCD protected socket with the "Freezer Only" label on it.
The kitchen will still be the kitchen, so the same basic provisions will be required. If there is a 1200mm wide gap under a worktop, with two sets of washing machine taps, two drainage stand pipes, and a tumble drier vent, its still a pretty good guess that a couple of remotely switched sockets under there are going to be equally handy in 30 years as they are now.
Likewise 4 or 6 doubles in the corner of the lounge adjacent to the TV aerial socket is also going to be a safe bet.
Tis why I prefer to use more fault tolerant circuits in the first place.
You mean install a couple of 20A radials where an electrician would place a 32A ring circuit? Cost is about the same, but the ring circuit will be less likely to cause the user problems with nuisance trips because they plugged the wrong combination of appliances into a set of sockets. The radials are also more likely to be subject to long term low level overload - something that the designer is supposed to mitigate against.
Use 4mm^2 cable instead of 2.5mm^2? Harder to wire, costs more, performs the same. So why bother?
You still don't get it.. you want to work to the minimum standards, I don't. You can do as you wish. There is no need for the regs to change to make things better, all it takes is a bit of thought. I notice you don't mention putting a 20A breaker in the ring and getting all the benefits of a ring and having less problems with faults.
I'm sure they do, considering that you sent the induction hob back to Aldi.
Do you have adults looking over your shoulder or something, and so you're not allowed to type crap?
He usually does:-)
Paws for thought
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