Croydon Tram

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh dear. No, they dont.

And the end to end principle is relative purist bollocks anyway. Every single large corporate and every single domestic user with almost no exceptions runs a private network behind a de-facto NAT firewall to connect to the internet.

No, its is a massively useful way to isolate private and public networks without having to do more than institute a NAT router/firewall at the boundary.

I suspect you are in favour of unlimited immigration from hostile countries and populations, as well.

The rest of us want to preserve our freedoms inside an area that is strongly guarded.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oddly enough I didn't realise till yesterday that Linux Mint no longer comes with ntp by default, and my desktop and local server were on different times by a few minutes, to real world time.

installing the package ntp is recommended for all Mint systems with more or less permanent internet connections.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Mine did.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 11:44:46 on Mon, 14 Nov

2016, The Natural Philosopher remarked:

Yes they do, I worked for RIPE NCC for five years and it was a common topic of discussion.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 11:47:27 on Mon, 14 Nov

2016, The Natural Philosopher remarked:

+1

[Tim Streater]

I've restarted the client. According to an alt.test test I did, seems to be fixed. Oh well, seems I have to restart it twice a year. Perhaps I knew that but had forgotten.

Sending at 12:34 or so.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That's fine now.

But it does sort of prove that things computer controlled still need to be correctly programmed or whatever. They are not intrinsically perfect. In other words, I'll take my chances with a human tram driver every time.

[fred]

FIFY

[Tim Streater]

Given that trams (unlike the DLR) also run on ordinary roads, I'd agree with that.

What happened to trolley buses anyway? More flexible than trams I'd have thought.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

They drive through pedestrian areas and have to stop at traffic lights (cross roads etc) just like other vehicles. Unlike the pretty simple DLR.

In this case, they'd need a much wider and more expensive road to replace the many miles of existing tram only track. And the trolley buses I remember were double deckers. Bridges on the route would have to be replaced at vast expense.

It's very sad indeed this terrible accident has happened - especially given the previous good safety record. Let's hope there is no knee jerk reaction.

[tony sayer]

In article , Tim Streater scribeth thus

And WTF has all this to do with bloody TRAMS then;!?...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The notion put forward by some that an automated driverless tramway would be safer.

[whisky-dave]

It could be, depending how it's run.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Please let me know if you get involved in any way. So I know to take the bus.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , Mike Tomlinson escribió:

Interim RAIB report shows tram was going three times the speed limit when it entered the bend.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That was mentioned in at least one of the interviews I saw with survivors. They said it didn't appear to slow down at all for the corner. And I'd guess most passengers at that time of the day would be regulars.

[Andy Burns]

Well it slowed from 50 to 43

Are there other tunnels on the route? i.e. could the driver have thought he was in one tunnel that would emerge onto a straight, but all to late realised he was in another tunnel that emerged onto a tight bend?

[whisky-dave]

Well according to those intreviewed even thosxe not on the train that views from the road have complained that the trams are traveling too fast waitin g for an accident to happen, it seems that this probbly wasn;t the fist tim e a tram had exceeded the 12MPH 'limit' My bus was going pretty fast this mornign I could hardly keep up with it.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Think it pretty obvious that 12 mph limit was pretty conservative. Rather like the speed limits you sometimes see on a sharp bend in a road. Most cars can go round that corner a lot faster - even in the wet. But 3 times+ that limit? Probably not.

[Chris Green]

One BBC report I heard (might not have been BBC) was suggesting that the speed in this case wasn't exceptional, that "they always went at that speed". It might be that something else actually *caused* the accident with the excess speed just being an aggravating factor.