Crappy night-time economy 7 electric heaters

[John Smith]

Hi,

Our house had electric heaters with Economy 7 installed back in, oh - the

70s. It was bloody expensive to have installed and this was back in the days when the nationalised electricity companies treated you like dirt and told you what you were having. Anyhow, basically, we have a system which controls our heating by switching the heaters on at 1AM and switches them off at 7AM.

In the night, during the winter, the house is warm.

In the day the house gets cold very quickly and there is no way to turn the heaters on. The heating is controlled by a black box with a clear plastic cover over it in which there is a metal clock type mechanism with 4 pins in it. I assume that, if I had the cover open, I could move the pins around and get it to change so that the heaters came on for, say, a couple of hours during the day as well as the usual night-time. Can I do this?

However, can I have a different control box installed so that I can set the heating to come on at night plus have some control over the heaters during the day?

Thanks,

John.

[Set Square]

You can't *legally* change the times at which you receive off-peak electricity.

If you really want to keep storage heaters (which - in my opinion - are an invention of the Devil!) you can get modern ones with much better insulation and output heat control - along with booster fans connected to the normal supply to get heat out during the day.

If I had them, I'd throw the lot out and put in a decent gas-fired system with radiators. Not only is this much cheaper to run, but it is also infinitely more controllable - and provides heat when *you* want it - not when your supplier says you can have it!

[Colin Wilson]

Not strictly true - there`s a tariff called Option 14 available from some suppliers that gives you 14 hours of "off peak" electricity - from 9pm to

8am and from 1pm to 4pm

Whether this is now classed as a "protected tariff" and only available to customers who were on it before it was withdrawn to new customers I can`t say, but I got it in approx December 1999 and went back onto standard quarterly tariff about 2 months ago when the central heating was installed.

The interim period from 1999 to 2004 had us using oil filled electric radiators in a couple of locations around the house, run directly from the ring main, and they were controlled using cheap digital plugin timers.

[James Salisbury]

SEC have brought in a tarif called flexi heat week

9p KWH 07:30 to 19:30 4.4p kwh 19:30 to 0:30 2.2 KWh 0:30 to 07:30

weekends

2.2.kWh 0:30 to 07:30 4.4 kwh at other times from 19:30 friday

[John Smith]

Thanks - I would put in gas but the plan is to move in the next 2 years so it is not cost effective.

[John Smith]

Thanks for this - I'll have to check with my electric bill to find out what tarriff I am on.

[Set Square]

I wouldn't be too sure about that! Assuming that you own the property rather than rent it, you are likely to increase the value by more than the cost if you put in a decent heating system. Storage heaters are a strong disincentive to many potential buyers.

[Set Square]

OK - what I was trying to say is that your supplier defines the timing of the off-peak period and you're not allowed to tamper with the clock - which was what the OP was suggesting doing.

If you can change to a more suitable tarrif, then fine. However, my impression is that, as storage heater technology has improved, the tarrifs available to new customers have become more rather than less restrictive - with no daytime boosts etc.

[Dave Liquorice]

Quite no way would I seriously consider a property heated by storage radiators. If it was a "must have" property the first job would be installing a proper heating system, and a reduction in my offer by about 10 grand to cover that cost...

[John Smith]

I did think that it would improve costs until I discovered, from various reports in the last few years, all of which said that installing central heating did not add to the value of a house. Odd I know but that is what the reports I have read claim. You know, these reports that look at what people spend on houses and then whether they have added the value they spent, etc.

John.

[Owain]

"John Smith" wrote | Our house had electric heaters with Economy 7 installed back in, oh - | the 70s. ... Anyhow, basically, we have a system which controls | our heating by switching the heaters on at 1AM and switches them | off at 7AM. | In the night, during the winter, the house is warm. | In the day the house gets cold very quickly and there is no way to | turn the heaters on.

Sounds like your flaps are stuck open. The problem is the heaters are letting all the heat out at night instead of holding it for when it's wanted later.

The heaters should be charging up with heat between 1-7am but should not release that heat until you open a flap inside. There should be an 'output' control on the heater. That should off OFF overnight and during the morning, then mid-afternoon or early evening turn the output up and the heater will release its heat so your house is warm in the evening. If you turn the output up too early in the day you'll run out of heat before tea-time. Turn the output to OFF before retiring to bed. You will probably hear the flap moving as you adjust it.

It is quite likely that the system is undersized and the house is inadequately insulated.

| The heating is controlled by a black box with a clear plastic | cover over it in which there is a metal clock type mechanism with | 4 pins in it. I assume that, if I had the cover open, I could move | the pins around and get it to change so that the heaters came on | for, say, a couple of hours during the day as well as the usual | night-time. Can I do this?

The timeswitch could be doing one or both of two tasks:

1. Changing your meter from High Rate to Low Rate. In this case the timeswitch should be sealed and breaking the seals would be a criminal offence.

1. Turning your heaters on and off at the right time. In this case your meter may be changed over by a separate teleswitch (radio controlled).

If the timeswitch is *only* doing 2. then you could alter it, but your heaters would then be taking in electric mid-afternoon at that ever-so-expensive High Rate. And storage heaters aren't designed for instantaneous heat, so you might as well plug in a fan-heater.

Owain

[John Smith]

10 grand - you obviously have very expensive central heating - most I was quoted was 6K.

[Dave Liquorice]

OTT figure pulled from a hat or look at this way 6k for the heating system 4k for the inconvience.

[Mike Clarke]

I'd expect you to at least break even. Assuming that it might cost 5,000 quid to install a heating system and 2 otherwise identical houses, one without central heating and the other with it but 5,000 more. To install heating the buyer will probably need to borrow the 5,000 after moving in and have all the disruption of having the work done. The extra 5,000 for the other house will be included in the mortgage at lower cost than a separate loan and he has none of the disruption. Unless the buyer plans to save a bit of money and do it himself he'd probably consider the house with heating a better deal.

Even if you don't recover your costs, installing central heating could make a considerable difference to the time it takes to find a willing buyer. You might want to attach some financial value to this.

[Matt Beard]

In fact they do it cleverly these days. Most recent split-rate installations are radio controlled and the heaters are turned on and off by the electricity board when they want. They seem to use this for load balancing. Our storage heaters go on and off at different times day to day - sometimes they go on for an hour or so during the day at odd times (3pm, 11am even 7pm at times!). As far as I can tell this is because adjusting the amount of power generated is difficult and takes a lot of time - so when demand drops suddenly (or unexpentedly) they just turn on lots of heaters to soak up the spare. Neat eh?

[Mike Mitchell]

An interesting thread, as I am contemplating whether to go for properties with Economy 7 heating. The feeling seems to be, no.

My preferred fuel is gas, but what if there is no gas? Would you consider Calor gas? Isn't that even more expensive?

We all grew up in unheated houses. The only source of heat was the open fires my dad laid every morning. Later, in a much larger house, we had a massive Aga in one of the kitchens and that was kept going throughout the year. Quite warm in summer, of course, but then we kids spent hardly any time in doors anyway! The heat from the Aga permeated throughout the house.

So, gas, Calor gas, propane (I assume it's the same thing), oil, or solid fuel? What about just using electric heaters (not eco 7 ones) and lots of insulation?

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

Not really. What do I want with a heater coming on outwith my control when it's already hot enough to fry an egg on the floor in summer?

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

Completely correct. I am avoiding all properties with oil, only giving Economy 7 ones a cursory look - and putting ones with gas-fired CH on my short list! I believe oil is an absolute no-no. Quite apart from the cost and the nuisance of having to get a lorry out, it's smelly and you have this eyesore of a tank in the back garden.

MM

[Set Square]

It may be neat for the Electricity Board - but *not* for you!

[mich]

Five years ago I bought a house with economy 7. I have always intended changing to solid fuel ( dont want oil, too noisy , smelly and an oil tank in the garden and LPG is too expensive and still an unsightly tank in the garden!). Most people in the village have solid fuel. A few have economy 7 Very few seem to have anything else.

As it happens I have never bothered to change. I found that the electric heating was not as bad as painted. I have never been cold. My fuel bill is as reasonable as it would be on either of the other options. It has the advantage of being clean, even if you do have to watch the weather forcasts to decide when to put it on ( especially cold spells in summer).

I cant say as I have ever been cold ( and I am a person who feels the cold).

Mine is the old fashioned kind. Probably put in late 1970's and seems to have a mechanical clock timer ( guess it must be triggered by electric though) However, I too have difficulty working out when its supposed to come on!

After a three day power cut in the storms a couple of years ago the supposedly midnight to seven am turned into ten thirty pm to five thirty am. recently it seems to have moved forward again but I dont know why.

I have not bothered to get them to come and do anything about it.