Cracked stair tread

[Steve]

Hey all!

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to worry about it breaking through? The main concern is that it makes a loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before putting a new carpet in.

What would be the best way to do this? I've read on the tinterweb that filling with epoxy is best, but a) I don't know how epoxy comes - it makes me think of either araldite, or fibreglass resin and b) most discussions spoke about getting to the underside of the stairs - unfortunately, I can't get underneath the stairs - it's all boarded in in the downstairs bog. Would running a squirt of no more nails in the crack then taping over with gaffer tape be any use? As I said, I'm only trying to reduce the noise it makes.

Thanks for any advice S

[Tim Watts]

Injecting epoxy would probably have more success than nomorenails for this application.

[Owain]

How far back from the nosing? Could you drill in from the nosing and use a really long screw to pull the two pieces together?

Owain

[Steve]

It's about 100mm in. Would that not weaken the front piece if I drilled for a, say, 125 / 150mm screw ?

S

[Steve]

Ok, so can you buy ready mixed epoxy already in something to inject it with? I've never bought / used epoxy before other than araldite.

S

[The Natural Philosopher]

rout some slots across the split and fit new wood and glue it all up

Epoxy maybe not the best. glue with PVA gap fill with body filler. ift whole tread and replace with glued and screwed ply/MDF

[Tim Watts]

Just use araldite - and a small syringe - the nose on a typical syringe should be fine enough depending on the width of the crack.

[John Rumm]

Nope, not really. Glue the crack, 3 or 4 screws to pull it tight. If you want to be really anal, then a layer of 3mm ply glued over the whole tread.

[Dave Liquorice]

How wide? Pictures paint a thousand words... tinypic.com is handy to bung a picture onto, you can get URL that just sends just the image to people not reams of useless scripting nonsense, acres of ads or needs a plugin to show a "slide show".

I shouldn't think it breaking is a concern not 100mm from the nose. You just need to stop the bits moving relative to each other. If the crack is narrow getting enough glue down into it will be tricky, thin bit of stiff plastic (PET blister pack?) may help and it would be good to push the two bits together as well but that won't be easy. It would be tricky but not impossible to partly drill a pilot hole for a

120-130 mm screw from the nose in. The tricky bit is getting that pilot hole parallel to the tread so the screw doesn't break out top or bottom when fully home.

I'm not convinced epoxy is suitable it tends to set rather hard and isn't flexable. The tread is timber if will move due to variations in humidity and due to the loading. Your glue needs to accomodate that movement. Think I'd stick with ordinary wood working PVA.

[Steve]

Good point. See below.

[Dave Liquorice]

crack...

Can you work out where the creaking is coming from? Might take a couple of people one to provoke the creak and another to listen close by the tread, risers and stringers. Looks like a couple of newish nails center of the tread an inch or so back from the nosing, perhaps the front bit of tread is moving against the riser?

If I couldn't track down the place of the creak to work directly on that, either by stopping the movement some how or seperating the surfaces so they don't rub when the movement happens. I think I'd clean the crud out of the crack and fill it as much as possible not sure what with though.

[Steve]

Ok, cheers. Sounds like TNP's router suggestion is looking favorite - trouble with that is you gotta make it worse before it gets better!

S

[fred]

Ok, if we're going for opening up the crack, how about routing the crack into a 1/2" slot then feeding a piece of 12mm ply[1] through to the underside. Use wires attached to the ply to pull it back into place under the tread. Screw through the tread into the ply to stabilise and fill the surface slot with wood and glue. Maybe add wood glue to the ply before putting it through the slot too.

[1] just smaller than the underside of the tread

[GB]

I'm not keen on the ply as it alters the height between treads, and somebody could fall. I know it's only 3mm, so the risk isn't too great, but then it's only to cure a small creak, so the reward isn't great either.

[Nick Odell]

That's how I would do it. Just change the 'Maybe add wood glue' to 'Absolutely definitely use wood glue.' When I use a variation on this technique to repair cracked cello sides, I use a ball-ended musical instrument string as my wire and a section of broom handle dowel as a winding post which when fully tight acts as a clamp.

Nick

[fred]

Interesting stuff, it never fails to impress me the range of skills contributing here. In your technique is the tone and resonance of the instrument altered by the repair? Does it need to be a really thin sliver of wood that is added?

I'm hoping the o/p's task will be simpler as he can rely on screws through the thread and into the ply[2] to pull the ply backer into place. Not something I imagine is acceptable for an instrument repair :-).

[2] I think I'd use over long screws (lots of) so that they pass through the ply and the best part of the thread is biting into it.

[Nick Odell]

What I actually do varies from instrument to instrument and depends as much on the value of the instrument as the complexity of the problem. The three main components in producing the sound are the top, the back and the air in between so in one sense the sides don't matter much but an ugly repair is unprofessional and to be avoided if possible.

On the workbench at the moment I've actually got a cello with a split rib. It's not been stoved in so it doesn't need pulling out or new wood cutting in so I'm going to close the crack and then tie it with small, thin, flat slivers of matching wood with the grain running across the crack. Traditionally, these are made as flat diamonds with bevelled edges but they may be any suitable shape and appropriate size. When I've finished, you'll be able to squint inside and see a neat row of little diamonds starting and finishing at each end of the crack and evenly spaced along its length.

I thought about mentioning that I don't add screws then hoped that in amongst this company I wouldn't need to!

Nick

[Gib Bogle]

It's already been mentioned, but to add my 2p ... Since creaking is the only consideration, surely the simplest fix would be just to more firmly attach whichever piece (or both) is moving. I'm not sure how stairs are constructed - you'd need to find the location of the supports. Then a couple of screws should do the trick, angled if necessary. Even simpler

- if it is the relative motion at the crack that's making noise, just widen the crack so the pieces don't touch.

[John Rumm]

Have a look at the ones I built here:

can see its the wedges that hold everything together. Alas fixing creeks etc later is hard if you can't get to the wedges. Consolidating the split treat will no doubt help.

[GB]

I did vaguely wonder about lubricating wherever the creak is coming from - presumably two bits of wood rubbing against each other. On the other hand that may be all that stops it moving much further, so probably a bad idea.