Corgi Registered ?

[Chris Oates]

apparently not

[BigWallop]

Good !!! It's about time more prosecutions were brought in for this type of malicious behaviour.

Many people think they can do the job because the supply pipes don't leak gas, but they really know nothing of the dangers of the flue gases that are produced after the gas has been burned. The charge of Manslaughter holds a life in prison sentence and these two deserve to get it.

I wonder if they'll plead insanity ? :-))

[Andrew McKay]

I must admit that although I'm well able to do the necessary pipework to connect up (and I've done this sort of job before no problem) I wouldn't even think of taking on a job of this nature.

Some things are best left to the experts.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our web site at

[Lee Blaver]

I installed our RSF combi (simple swap, and I did get a gas safety cert on it later), but I wouldn't dream of installing anything open or passive flued.

I hate standard gas fires anyway, they make me feel ill even if they have been properly fitted and serviced. I certainly wouldn't have one installed here, whoever fitted it :-)

I was just wondering, are Gas fires statisically any more hazardous than other open flued appliances? Even coal/wood fires produce CO after all...

Lee

[BigWallop]

An open coal fire produces more water vapour than CO2, and is normally under a six inch chimney that's wide open to the elements. If you look at the modern coal fires with the piped chimney, the have doors on them to keep blow downs to a minimum and seal them off from the rest of the room.

The modern coal fires are made to radiate heat from the body of the fire itself but, a gas appliance must radiate its heat from an open flame to be of any benefit in heating a room. I don't know if you've ever seen the gas fires with the glass fronts, but we had one for many years in a rather large lounge and it wasn't worth a sook (Scots slang for suck) in heating the room, but it looked nice.

Any restriction in a flue from a gas appliance is a danger to anything living in and around that appliance. In fact, only a few days ago in here, I happened to mention a story of the maintenance man who fired up a heating system after a long summer shutdown period. A mass of debris had gather in the flue over the months, and when the system was fired up, it nearly killed everyone in the place. When the maintenance guy was asked if he'd checked the system as he should've, he replied "yes, but I thought the that the muck in the flue pipe was a baffle that had been fitted to stop anything blowing back up the pipe". He's learned his lesson well.

[Andrew Gabriel]

I think the open flued instant water heaters (e.g. Ascot) were the worse. After all, they're going to be around 20-30kW, whereas a gas fire is probably 6kW (input) max. Whilst a room might have a good enough air supply for 6kW, it might not have 5 times the air supply required for 30kW. Shutting yourself in a bathroom with one of these and all the drafts sealed up to keep you warm was pretty fast way to kill yourself, and it still happens.

The CO should burn if there's enough oxygen.

[IMM]

It apears they were builders, or at least they were charging for the work. If they were friends and doing it for nothing, and they were not "competent", which in this case they were not, they still would be charged. You can fit any gass appliance or pipework as long as you are "competent" and don't charge for it.

If the deaths were not due to the installation (for e.g., a bird could have dropped down the flue and blocked it) and the fitters were friends and they were "competent", then they are in the clear.

[Dave Plowman]

I'd say an open coal or log fire wouldn't work too well without a decent updraught from the chimney. But a gas fire probably would.

[Ed Sirett]

Precedents for the length of sentence would be a couple of years - sort of on a level of causing death by dangerous driving.

[Ed Sirett]

Indeed there is reckoned to always be enough air to support 7kW. Occasionally you will find a room where a chimney won't draw and then an extra vent would have to be added.

You point about bathrooms highlight why open flued appliances are forbidden in bathrooms.

The nominal rating of a coal fire is reckoned on 14kW.

[Lee Blaver]

If this is a rating of how much air a coal fire consumes, how much useable heat does a coal fire contribute to a room? Just curious :-)

Lee

[tarquinlinbin]

I would ban all open flued motor vehicles also....

[Ed Sirett]

Admittedly it a bit like defining the length of the proverbial piece of string. This figure would be for working out the likely ventilation needs for a room with both coal and gas open flued appliances: not a situation one is likely to come across very often. 8-)

[IMM]

technological

You have a point.

[Dave Plowman]

Well, all reasonable steps have been taken to make sure petrol engines don't produce poisonous fumes. Your point being?