CORGI and not meeting Part L regs

[ARWadsworth]

Will CORGI investigate a complaint when a new boiler is installed and TRVs have been used on every radiator with no room stat or boiler interlock. I am sick of seeing these installations and today a friend of mine was suckered (*) and had TRVs installed on every rad

Adam

(*)My friend and his wife were given all the details I could get for them about stats and interlocks (mostly from uk.d-i-y) but only she was at home when the work was done. The plumber asked how dare she question his work and told her that a modulating boiler with TRVs on all rads is fine. She was quite scared by his attitude and allowed the work.

[John Stumbles]

I doubt it, as it's not a gas safety issue, 'just' a Building Regs/Energy Efficiency issue.

A few boilers (some Pottertons and Baxis at least) have built-in diverter valves arranged to allow all-TRV installations. In other cases it would be "interesting" to see what the installer has put in the various boxes of the Benchmark certificate that they filled in (didn't they?!)

[Ed Sirett]

The inspector told me that they will investigate all complaints even ones that are not apparently gas safety related. This is because invariably infringements in (say) the building regs will be matched by other less obvious corner cutting.

[The Medway Handyman]

Interestingly, I had a call from a lady who has the room stat in an upstairs bed room and TRV's on all other rads. Small terraced house so she doesn't have a hall.

Upstairs like a sauna, downstairs freesing cold. She was told the room stat had to go upstairs because of the TRV's.

Don't know what boiler it is.

[Andrew Gabriel]

I've had dealings with 4 CORGI's over heating systems in the last

2 years, in friends houses. None of them had any real understanding of heating systems, and absoultely no clue about the controls or the electrics or the internal workings of the boilers. I presumed they understood the gas side, but CORGI came and inspected one of the installations afterwards and said they guy obviously never measured the gas pressure as the Transco regulator was miles out, resulting in an emergency Transco callout there and then. I therefore presume he can't even have done a soundness test either, since it would have been impossible to miss this.

[andyrdhall]

Possibly even more so now that there is a a franchise tender for this role coming up. Of course, we all know that it's a done deal, but perhaps a letter or two to appropriate places in CORGI wouldn't go amiss. Then if there's no response, we can be certain it's a done deal.

[Jim Alexander]

Is this just a boiler replacement with existing TRVs on existing rads with no existing room stat or a new installation or something in between? Yes its a badly spec'd system but if just a boiler change on an existing system not sure its reasonable to expect a room stat unless that was included in the offer. What did the installer propose, more importantly was nothing learned from unsuccessful installers proposals?

Jim A

[John Stumbles]

He could have done a tightness (as well call it :-)) test without noticing the full pressure because you don't apply full pressure when testing the system (see Ed's Gas Fitting FAQ). Of course he should also have checked the working pressure. Seems a bit unfair to say the installer missed the dodgy regulator: presumably when the meter and/or regulator was installed it was working OK and had gone wrong since, so it could have gone bad after the installer had done the boiler.

[John Stumbles]

When I rang Basingstoke about a dodgy-sounding installation (flue gases entering neighbouring living accomodation) that came up in this group a while back they didn't want to know.

[Ed Sirett]

There is an excellent product for this, assuming that the upstairs thermostat has a neutral as well as live and switched live (by no means a certainty). The Horstmann wireless thermostat: the receiver unit can be fitted in the bedroom and the sender unit can be placed on the wall or on a side shelf elsewhere as needed until the best point is discovered.

The upstairs TRVs sound like they will all need setting to a low value.

[Ed Sirett]

Whilst the guy could easily have missed the meter running pressure, the problem would have shown up as abnormal boiler inlet pressure and I have yet to see any boiler instructions which don't include the inlet pressure as part of the full commissioning tests. (for some, Ideal Isar, it's the only test they require!).

[Ed Sirett]

There is no such thing as just a 'boiler replacement' unless it's being done under warranty and the original install was before 1/Apr/5. Part L is not just about condensing boilers. See the Boiler choice FAQ.

[Ed Sirett]

To be a pro you need to have ACS qualifications these are about gas safety not about heating systems. However you also need a certified record of supervised gas work. During this time you may or may not have being instructed in the finer points heating system design, installation, diagnosis & repair.

To self-certify Part L compliance you need a C&G 6083 (IIRC) which is energy efficiency. Again some experience and knowledge is needed but nowhere near what it takes in practice to sort out real world systems.

[fred]

In article , The Medway Handyman writes

It should be possible to make this work but Ed's wireless stat would be tidier.

I bet the system isn't balanced: a) balance it (with TRVs open). b) set stat & TRVs to desired temps The area with the thermostat needs to be the last to heat up and the first to cool down: c) if the bedroom reaches demand temp before the rest of the house is to temp then throttle its rad to slow it down. d) if the rest of the house cools down before the bedroom, leave the bedroom door open a bit to let the heat leak out more quickly and get the boiler on again.

Job done.

Not the most sophisticated of solutions but TRV control really isn't that sophisticated.

[ARWadsworth]

It is a new boiler replacing an old one and is in a new location. It was internal with a flue through the chimney but is now on an external wall, the existing system had no TRVs but did have a room stat. It was an S Plan and until I get time to call and see the system I have no idea what it is now.

Yes

Building regs state quite clearly that a room thermostat or some sort of boiler interlock is required when you change a boiler.

What did the installer propose, more importantly was nothing

I was not there when the plumber called. I would guess that he has lied or is incompetent.

Adam

[Jim Alexander]

I confess when I said that, while I would never have installed a system without a room stat, I wasn't sure just how clear the regs were on that. Thanks to Ed for the clarification. However I stand by the words I used. Was the offer clear on the scope? Again I ask were there any other quotes? Were they all silent on the subject? The quote process is not just about the lowest number. I fear this hasn't been well handled by your friend.

Maybe, but if the system is otherwise properly installed I doubt a single non-compliance will prove incompetence. As far as the other charge, well as you said you weren't there and are just guessing.

My suggestion - help out your friend by connecting the room stat, with our help if necessary.

Jim A

[ARWadsworth]

But removing one? The new boiler is also a S plan. I called round today for a look.

My friend has had the job organised by a builder who is doing lots of other work. He did not shop around. His fault I know.

The quote process is not just about

This friend, unlike most of my friends need not worry about money.

It has to be one of the two.

I do believe I can manage a room stat :) And yes that is what I will be doing as well as trying to get my friend to take things further

I think my main complaint is that if a competent DIYer had done the job it would have been done properly. It stinks that if you pay someone (I cannot use the words a professional) to do a job that should meet building regs and fails to do so there is no easy way to get is corrected.

It is not just my friend's installation I am angry about, I see this setup with no roomstat on lots of houses with new boilers.

Cheers

Adam

[ARWadsworth]

Could be a job for trading standards then if I can get my friend to call them. What is it with the English and complaining, can we only complain about the weather and not about piss poor services and workmanship?

I have no idea how the Welsh and N.Irish make a complaint but I would never cross a Scot. They do not mess about.

Adam

[Owain]

I've heard stories of people in Glasgow getting contracts taken out on them because they didn't take turn on the stair-cleaning rota.

Owain