Condensing Boilers: Daily Mail Article

[dennis]

Hint for adam: you are being the knob head.

[ARWadsworth]

Have you ever considered doing an English course at your local college?

[Onetap]

Dear Dennis, I'm aware that you've had some disgreements with other posters, but I haven't been involved; I haven't even read those threads. I only post here because I happen to know a lot about heating and I like to try to help people.

After considering your response, I have concluded that you're either an utter f****it or that you're a troll who gets some perverse pleasure from winding up pre-stressed people. Whichever it is, please don't reply to any of my posts ever again and I won't reply to any of yours. That way we'll get along fine. Regards, OT

[Tony Bryer]

My Glow-worm had a syphon arrangement that periodically released the collected condensate in one go, whilst my earlier Potterton Envoy delivered it drip, drip, drip which would make freezing up more likely.

[geoff]

In message , Onetap writes

Another one for the album ...

but don't take my name in vain

the word you wanted was trolly - that's what denise is off

[Steve Walker]

Most of it is scare-mongering bollocks.

[Steve Walker]

Pipes freeze in winter shock! Pictures on pages 7-23

[ARWadsworth]

Nipples are bigger in the cold weather, read all about it in the Sun

[Andy Champ]

If I have this right (and I'm not a plumber, nor a boiler engineer)

- Old boilers don't plume because the exhaust disperses before the temperature drops low enough to condense

- If the exhaust temp was low enough compared to the air you'd get no pluming becuase the water would already have condensed out

You get a plume on the intermediate temperatures. I think.

Andy

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I can see my boiler terminal from here.

The old RS one plumed very occasionally - very dependant on weather conditions. The condensing one near always. But of course it's rarely on when it's hot and sunny. ;-)

[Tim Streater]

Seems to me it should plume when very cold outside (so gets cold before dispersing), or when the air is already laden with moisture, such as in foggy conditions (except you might not see it then due to the fog - being white on white).

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Mine has an external drain - but is well insulated. Never had a problem in

5 years or so. But this is Central London so doesn't get as cold as some.

However, other drains in the house are external, and they'd freeze too if it got very cold.

[geoff]

What a pointless post

[YAPH]

If you've got an old conventional flue boiler that's a good plan. If it needs maintenance it'll quite possibly just soot up and the carbon monoxide will kill you, then you won't have to even worry about gas bills.

Actually that's not a like-for-like comparison.

Standard efficiency non-condensing boilers have for decades had fanned flues, and the fan eventually packs up (ask Geoff: he makes a living from selling refurbished ones) so there you've got a non-condensing boiler that's less reliable than a non-condensing boiler.

And for decades boilers have had electronic ignition and a bunch of electronics which occasionally fails (ask Geoff about that too) even though they should be vastly more reliable than some of them are ( Suprima )

And increasingly boilers have had the system pump built-in rather than installed externally. And many are combis, which moves the diverter valve out of the airing cupboard and into the boiler, so now when either pump or valve goes wrong (which they do periodically) it's the "boiler" that's broken down, not the external component.

And most boilers also have an expansion vessel and pressure-relief discharge valve built-in instead of having a feed and expansion ("header") tank in the attic, so instead of the ball valve in the tank failing, if the PRD valve or expansion vessel fails it's a "boiler" fault again.

Condensing boilers add the elements of a condensate drain which can freeze or otherwise block up if incorrectly installed - which also gets the boiler the blame.

To be fair most high efficiency (condensing) boilers also have heat exchangers with narrow waterways, most of which are arranged in a loop in a vertical plane, which are asking to get blocked up by the sort of crud found in an old, poorly cleaned or poorly maintained system.

most have more smarts in the gas-air mixing arrangement feeding the burner (like electronic fuel injection in a car) so we should probably expect some duff designs amongst the new generation of boilers.

Even so the single most notoriously unreliable new generation condensing boiler design owes its unreliability to its electronics which is nothing to do with condensing technology and everything to do with bad design.

[YAPH]

But even syphon-discharge types have frozen in this recent cold weather. One I put in with about a metre run of 22mm plastic outside, falling at about 45 degrees and properly lagged but which had to have except the final 3" which had to be bare (to get through a gap into a gutter) froze in that unlagged section.

And another where the condensate discharged internally into a basin waste: the exterior run from the basin waste to the outside hopper froze!

Really with cold weather as severe as we've been having[1] recently we installers are going to have to be even more conservative about condensate discharge. I can see myself making more use of condensate pumps to get wastes into interior soil stacks rather than relying on any outdoor sections in future.

[1] down here in the wimpy south: I daresay installers in the highlands of Scotland and Welsh hills are snorting with derision.

[YAPH]

Ideal Icos and Isar, by any chance?

[Doctor Drivel]

What excessive breakdowns would these be?

[Doctor Drivel]

It is actually identifying anything which is fact. It blamed John Prescot for the actions of cowboy plumbers. It did!

[Doctor Drivel]

Temperature below 0C

[Doctor Drivel]

This does prove you have brain damage.