Competent person?

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Hi All, Anyone know where I can find the definition of a "competent person" regarding the new electrical regulations coming into force next year?
TIA
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http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/PartP.pdf
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wrote:

Basic rule seems to be anyone who has subscribed to the NICEIC. I don't use the term "member" of the NICEIC because they don't have members, apparently. You just hand over your dosh each year and you become able to issue certificates.
I think.
PoP
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No, to become a member of the NICEIC, you need to have been in business for a year. To be in business you need to already be a member of the NICEIC. By instituting this chicken and egg situation, the government has effectively banned setting up an electrical business.
Christian.
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:25:20 +0100, "Christian McArdle"

Exactly. And what this government are too stupid to recognise is that there are another few votes which won't go in their direction in the future. And probably never will again, given that if you give people a hard time during your governments term then they most likely will suffer from having a long memory.
PoP
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It's fine if you are already a member of NICEIC. The banning of well over 50% of people already doing this work will not impact deleteriously on their pricing strucures...
Christian.
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This might be of help:
http://tinyurl.com/qe78
or (but watch out for page wrap)
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_609519.hcsp
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Competent person is a purposefully loose description, to allow a number of criteria to fit.
It the fundamental level, it is "someone able to do the job". You then expand this by qualifying why they can do the job. This may be demonstated by years of experience, or a certain qualification.
A definition is just one possibility, and bear in mind that there will be other ways to meet competancy. The IEE may state one method and promote a certain training course - obviously for a fee. However, reading the new regs thouroughly at home (and understanding them!) is just as good a method to be competant.
dg

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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:42:12 +0100, dg wrote:

Err, not *quite* all. An understanding of basic electrical theory is essential when considering competency. Merely reading and understanding the regs will not provide that understanding. How would a competent person by your definition know how to avoid danger from electric shock when working on an electrical installation? How would they know the *relevance* of correct polarity? How would they know the *relevance* of earth loop impedance?
I do not subscribe to the idea that all such work should be carried out by 'qualified' - whatever that means - electricians or gas fitters, where gas is concerned, but I do think that anyone who is prepared to take on such work must be aware of the dangers and how to avoid them.
One only has to read through some of the oh so basic questions that get asked in this NG at times to know that there is a need for some form of control over the enthusiastic but unknowing amateur. When I see something like 'Can anyone recommend a good book to help me instal a new twin plug', then it's fairly obvious to me that person should not be doing that work.
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wrote:

I think a fair starting point for taking on this sort of work would have to include having gained the necessary certifications via C&G2381 and C&G2391. What surprised me earlier this year when I got my C&G2381 was that the course was full of sparkies who had been practising for some time (i.e. they weren't apprentices). As the only non-sparky on the course I was a bit surprised by that - I'd have thought their apprenticeship would have equipped them with that certification but I was obviously wrong. I think a couple of them had 15th edition or something, can't remember now.
I'm doing C&G2391 in the new year when there's next a place available at the local college. Then equipped with that certification I can, err, not write certificates because I'm not a subscriber to the NICEIC quango.
PoP
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Actually I'd consider that a little unfair - if someone is asking the question then they are aware they have limitations and hence are asking for more informed advice. If they are asking for a book reference, then they are showing they are taking things seriously and looking for the correct way to do things.
If, however, they are saying "I fitted a new twin plug yesterday and my house caught fire when I switched the power on, why?", then I'd agree with you!
T.
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:54:07 +0100, Tony Wood wrote:

But the danger of following an idiot's guide is that they may not realise that regardless of said idiot's guide if they actually get the cables in the wrong terminals it could have lethal consequences.
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Are you really sure there are many who don't realise that some wires are live while others aren't? Most people with no technical knowledge know what an earth is.
--
*'Progress' and 'Change' are not synonyms.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:41:15 +0100, Dave Plowman wrote:

I've had to attend a couple of inquests as expert witness, so yes, and judging on some of the questions I've seen asked in this NG over the three or four years I've been following it, again, yes! There may not be many, but just one accident because someone doesn't understand what they're doing is too many.
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If this is a general view, it gives carte blanche for the government to introduce legislation as indeed they have done. Whether it will be effective or not - "something has to be done".
Wonder when they'll do something similar about road deaths? Everyone driving is qualified to do so - in theory at least - but it doesn't stop accidents.
FWIW, some of the most serious bodges in electrics I've seen in my limited experience were carried out by pros that will presumably be the very ones who are allowed legally to work on electricity under the new legislation.
--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:15:11 +0100, Dave Plowman

Precisely. Not long ago when flooring my loft, I found at several light fittings where several cables arrive to create the daisy chain and switching, that the earths had simply been twisted together behind the fitting. No sleeving, no terminals. Bodge.
Presumably the electrician gets a special deal on his spurs from the electrical wholesaler.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
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wrote:

Several weeks ago I put a PC into my daughters bedroom. As I was sorting out the cabling she remarked "oh yes, that 13A socket doesn't work". She had never told me previously, but what the heck.
I set to with the screwdriver, to discover that whoever wired up our house 8 years ago had done a serious bodge job, leaving this socket either badly or not earthed. And these are definitely people who will be allowed to continue working on electrical installations.
Coming back on-topic, I think the general tradesman who needs to do the occasional electrical work might tend to cut less corners than a sparky who is doing this day-in, day-out. Familiarity breeds apathy. And don't we see that in our politicians?
PoP
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:02:24 +0100, PoP

I am not sure I agree with the former. The other day, a tradesman who was connecting up a new wall light as part of a larger job came to me and said he was puzzled because it did not work when he put the fuse back in - and there was mains to the fitting ok. He then demonstrated to me that he had 240v to both pins of the bayonet socket!     It was clear to ME that I would not expect the bulb to light up in those circumstances although it took ME a few minutes to work out what had been done - the power supply had been taken from the switched live between two switches to the main room light!     A 'proper' sparky was then called in to rewire the light.
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:50:26 +0100, Brian S Gray

Have to agree with you there that the tradesman was not competent to be doing the job.
But by the same token, being a qualified and time-served sparky would not automatically make someone competent either. The likelihood is that they would be, but there are bad apples in every barrel.
PoP
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wrote:

The gentleman who wired our house was a budding Robin Hood. In the attic every wire is a bow string, incliding the one that stretched taut across the corner of the framing around the access hatch.
Paul Mc Cann
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