Commissioning a ring circuit

[David W.E. Roberts]

Hi,

been getting some useful info. from Christian McArdle and Andy Hall about my impending ring circuit.

Christian has given me a rundown on what is needed to correctly check a new circuit, requiring £600+ worth of equipment.

However

appears to give a much simpler method from another Andy (Wade).

It seems unreasonable to expect every DIYer adding new wiring to cough up £600+ for specialised equipment, so what is the recommendation?

Always use a qualified electrician? [If so, what would you expect the normal charge to be?]

Use the Andy Wade method? [If so, how much and where for a low resistance ohm-meter with good resolution, say a range of 0 - 2 ohms with divisions of 0.05 ohm?]

Nah, she'll be right! [Carefully connect and check (visually and mechanically) each socket on the ring, before connecting the whole thing into the CU.]

I appreciate what Christian is saying about the correct (professional sparky) way of doing things, but what are the risks of a careful installation without fancy test tools?

I am talking here about an all-new installation. Adding to an existing installation which you didn't do is another level of risk - probably better to have the whole house checked before you start. Note that my house electrics were checked when the new CU was installed.

Additional question - what are the implications of adding one or more sockets to an existing ring (in line or as a spur)? Adding lighting, bathroom fans, etc.?

Should you again have the whole thing checked by a pro. sparky?

Cheers Dave R

[Christian McArdle]

From April, it will be illegal. All new electrical circuits will have to be properly tested by a NICEIC installer or building control. Apparently, no-one has told building control and the statutory impact assessment was a stitch up.

Given that in the midst of a shortage of labour, they are about to ban 3/4 of current electricians and make it illegal to form a new electrical company, I would suggest around 500 pounds per hour.

Christian.

[David W.E. Roberts]

You missed off - but I'm not bitter........:-)

[David W.E. Roberts]

er....me again......

Just how the hell are they going to police this?

Withdraw all electrical equipment from sale, or require all sales to non-NICEIC people to be registered for duture inspection?

Sound of a seriously boggling mind......

[Christian McArdle]

No they're going to change the colour of the cable, so if you have the new colours, you should have a bit of paper to go with it.

You think I'm joking, don't you?

Christian.

[David Hearn]

So, worth buying a huge job-lot of cable to make sure you've got enough cable for every possible installation you can think of in the next 20 years? ;)

D

[Dave Plowman]

If you've been careful and thorough in your workmanship, using good materials, the chances of any faults are near zero.

You can check for any shorts or open circuits with a DVM - this will show up any howlers.

Although it's nice to have the proper test gear and I'm sure it's sensible, people managed for many years without.

[PoP]

The new regs to come into force from April advise that any work undertaken in either a kitchen or bathroom is subject to the regs, and thus a certificate should be issued after testing has taken place.

You most likely won't have much choice in the matter. The problem is going to be be finding a qualified sparky after next April. They look to me as though their diaries are going to be brimming, and an inescapable consequence of this is that their rates will be high.

This all feeds through on dear old Gordons inflation index in due course, but why should he care? By the time the crap hits the fan he'll be out of the chancellors job and some other wally will have to pick it up.

PoP

[Owain]

"David Hearn" wrote | "Christian McArdle" wrote | > No they're going to change the colour of the cable, so if you | > have the new colours, you should have a bit of paper to go with it. | > You think I'm joking, don't you? | So, worth buying a huge job-lot of cable to make sure you've got enough | cable for every possible installation you can think of in the next 20 | years? | ;)

Ah, but when you come to sell your house, all the "old" work will have to be inspected by an electrician anyway because it's "old".

Owain

[ARWadsworth]

I am not CORGI registered, I am not a plumber, I know nothing about gas supplies (apart from what I have read in this group), and yet I can walk into any plumbing merchants and buy a boiler and all the parts to connect it up to a gas supply. Nothing will be different with the electricity regs.

-- Adam

[e-mail]

[Christian McArdle]

Indeed. I've just done this very thing. I'm not fitting it, though! No one has once asked me if I am qualified to fit any of it.

Christian.

[ARWadsworth]

If they were forced to ask, most merchants would lose a good slice of their business.

-- Adam

[e-mail]

[fred]

In article , Christian McArdle writes

Illegal as in bash door down in a suspected drug dealer stylee, or just a statutory requirement of Building Regulations. I have the feeling it is the latter, so could we perhaps remove a little 'drama' from the discussion . . .

[RichardS]

Not at the moment you won't.

And what will the outcome be? "Not to current regs".

reckon that description fits 99% of the s/h housing market.

In a depressed market a buyer can get a survey and use it as a bargaining point to force the price down. In the current market, I'd laugh if they tried to do that and point them towards the nice new-builds down the road.

cheers Richard

-- Richard Sampson

email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article , Christian McArdle writes

To what?

[PoP]

One method is already in place and can be easily extended.

When a hous comes up for sale the buyers solicitor issues a questionaire running to several pages. To this can be added questions like "has any work of any nature been carried out to any part of the electrical system to your knowledge?".

If the answer is yes then the follow-up will be "please add the certificates for the work to this questionaire".

If the answer is no then the current homeowner would be held liable in the event that work was carried out and not notified.

PoP

[PoP]

Agreed. But then those earlier situations did not take account of increased stupidity in government.

PoP

[stefek.zaba]

Seconded. Working on your own time, not rushing things, and knowing you have your and your family's welfare at stake, you're more likely to do a good job than many electricians doing "small works". (As I understand it, commercial work usually pays a lot better than small domestic jobs, so it's that much harder to get a competent, pride-in-work person to do small domestic jobs. Far from impossible, but a pain.) A little trip along the new ring (before it's powered up!) with a Long Long extension cable plugged into the first socket on the ring (leave the two ends at the CU unconnected), working in sequence and checking for continuity between the terminals at your sockets and those at the end of the extension, will indepedently confirm you have the right connections made; and if you have a low-ohms reading meter, you should be able to see the resistance rise steadily as you work your way further along the ring. That, on top of the FAQ procedure (which is lifted from the On-Site Guide), will be plenty.

There's an affordable piece of "quick-check" gear on the market these days which I find worth having: it's an update of the old "three neons wired between the three pins" jobbie, which includes a basic earth-loop-impedance check. RS sell them at the usual "full-RRP-plus" price as stocknum 436-3456 for 50 quid, so you can probably find them at your friendly electrical trade counter for about 35 quid. (Sparkies will instantly recognise the sound as "the first Martindale of spring" ;-) They'll give a within-10% indication of the earth loop impedance being in one of 6 bands: 0-1.7, 1.7-5, 5-10, 10-100, 100-200, 200-500 ohms; anything over the first two bands is, like, Wrong (even a value over

1.7ohms is cause for some concern). This is not a precision earth impedance checker, but to check your own wiring or that of a house you've just moved in to it's not a bad bit of kit. Obviously, it works on sockets which are powered up, so you do your own multimeter and visual checks on new wiring *first*!

HTH, Stefek

[David W.E. Roberts]

However it will be difficult 5 years down the line to prove if the work was done prior to the regulation change, or after it.

So no certificate required because it was done 'before the change'.

As suggested, stock up on your old style wiring now!

Cheers Dave R

[David W.E. Roberts]

Nah - one reel will do. Just add a bit to the end of each cable run, using a choc bloc wrapped in insulation tape, and the ends will look Kosher.

No problem. Dave R