Comet & CORGI

[The Medway Handyman]

Customer I did a job for today had bought a new free standing gas cooker from Comet who charged her an extra £55 for installation & removal of old cooker.

The two oiks who delivered it said they couldn't install it because there had to be a minimum 3cm gap either side between units and (according to their measurements) it was only 2cm. They then left.

She unpacked it this morning to find it fitted the gap leaving around 8cm either side! The instruction book said it was designed to fit a 60cm gap & the gap was 62cm - no mention whatsoever about a 3cm gap either side.

Obviously the two oiks - who she describes as 'young lads' just wanted to go home or to the pub.

Annoyingly I couldn't do the job despite being able to, because I don't have a piece of paper saying I can.

What I wonder is, were the two 'young lads' CORGI registered gas installers? It seems doubtful to me and if they were they are clearly incompetent.

She is going to call Comet to get it sorted, but it smacks of complete b*ll*cks to me. Are they sending un qualified oiks out with a ready made excuse sheet?

[dom]

I may be wrong here - but ISTR a CORGI qualification is not a necessity to connect freestanding cookers with flexi-hoses and bayonet couplings.

[Ed Sirett]

This is a slightly more sophisticated example of the "Comet-installation-scam".

The customer pays for an installation service in good faith.

The delivery guys turn up and don't install because: ... "we haven't got our tools". ... "we aren't insured for that type of work" ... "this is not a standard installation" ... "no one told us we had to install it" ... "this can't go here because of regulation xxx.yyy"

My guess is that a large enough proportion of people just leave the matter and take the loss. A proportion get there money back so only office admin losses are incurred by Comet. Apart from the scam revenue stream the company also gains marketing kudos by claiming to offer an installation service.

Has no one yet taken Comet on about this in court. Trouble is, I know there's a case to answer, but I have not the resources to compile the wad of hard documentary evidence required to make a case for trading standards to take them on.

[Ed Sirett]

It comes down to what is 'Gas Work' within the meaning of the GSIUR (1998). I think it comes down to work on a pipe, appliance or fittings requiring the use of a tool.

Removing and replacing the same cooker is not "Gas Work". Removing and replacing the same model is not "Gas Work". Removing and replacing with a different model that fits the bayonet adaptor, location and the satbility device with out modification and in accordance with the instructions is probably not "Gas Work". (NB IANAL)

A new cooker won't have the hose on it already so if you get paid to install it you should be registered.

HTH clarifies the nuances of the boundary between "Gas Work" and non "Gas Work"

[The Medway Handyman]

New cookers now come without hoses. Seems like a deliberate ploy to extract more money from the punter.

[The Medway Handyman]

So this is a well known ocurrance?

Come to think of it I had a job last year to install a washing machine. Comet oiks had arrived & the old machine was wired into a switched spu with a flex oultlet. They said they couldn't touch it & left the new & old machines.

Took all of 5 mins to connect up & left me with the job of getting the old machine down 4 flights of stairs - which is the reason I suspect they left.

[John Rumm]

ISTM, that new cookers have come without hoses (or at least without attached hoses for ages).

[John Stumbles]

So who takes on Trading Standards for skyving off the job _they're_ supposed to be doing - i.e. compiling the wad of hard documentary evidence required to make a case to take them on. ? :-)

[John Stumbles]

To be fair there are 2 or 3 different types of hose around.

[Ron Lowe]

So how about if you:

1) Declare yourself competent; and 2) Fit the hose for free?

( Supplying the hose at a reasonable markup is a seperate matter... )

Just wondering.

You could extend this to all manner of work. A cost for re-fitting the kitchen, with itemised cost breakdown, including: Altering the gas pipework: free.

[Owain]

Would using a tool to remove/refit an anti-tilt restraint constitute Gas Work? I know it's not on a Gas Carrying Part, but it is a safety-related point.

Owain

[Andy Hall]

Ah.. My favourite topic concerning local authority bureaucrats - acting as judge and jury in their own cause. i've had 'em shaking in front of an audience before now when caught doing that. Mind you, that was highways and parks and pleasuregrounds departments, but the principle is the same. Exposure to the carbon arc lights of wide scale public visibility. ;-)

[John Stumbles]

GSIUR section 2: General interpretation and application """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" "work" in relation to a gas fitting includes any of the following activities carried out by any person, whether an employee or not, that is to say - (a) installing or re-connecting the fitting; (b) maintaining, servicing, permanently adjusting, disconnecting, repairing, altering or renewing the fitting or purging it of air or gas; (c) where the fitting is not readily movable, changing its position; and (d) removing the fitting; but the expression does not include the connection or disconnection of a bayonet fitting or other self-sealing connector """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

From the above it would seem not (IANAL etc) but GSIUR section 8 would apply: """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" No person shall make any alteration to any premises in which a gas fitting or gas storage vessel is fitted if that alteration would adversely affect the safety of the fitting or vessel in such a manner that, if the fitting or the vessel had been installed after the alteration, there would have been a contravention of, or failure to comply with, these Regulations. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" So removing a restraint would be illegal unless you refit it so it does its job.

[The Medway Handyman]

So what were the chances of these two young lads being CORGI registered employees? Having an NVQ (not very qualified) wouldn't be enough surely?

[Stuart Noble]

ISTR the Comet gang that delivers gas appliances does nothing but, so they probably do have the paperwork

[Ed Sirett]

About half a dozen or so calls per year by people desperate having been let down by comet. I don't really loo0k for this work so that only coming form word of mouth. The story is always the same though; even if the customers coming back to be are a minority against the satisfied majority there is still something afoot.

[Ed Sirett]

I haven't approach Trading Standards myself about this. It's possible that they are getting a stream of complaints but each complainer is being refunded? It's possible but a little unlikely that I'm seeing a filtered situation that highly unrealistic.

[Ed Sirett]

That's because new cookers require installation. Which means installing them correctly according to BS 6172 and possible installing pipework to BS

6798.

[Ed Sirett]

This latter point rather begs the question about the raison d'etre of the law. Is it as many strongly suspect to make self employment as a second or part time job unattractive?

[Ed Sirett]

Only one of them actually has to be qualified. They would need a CCN1 and CKR1 qualifications which is about 70% + 5% of the domestic natural gas syllabus. I suspect they are still operating a scam.