Combis and showers

[Jim]

Since our HW recently packed up I've decided it's about time I got the system updated and a new kitchen fitted. The boiler is currently inconveniently sited on an internal wall in the kitchen and rather than get a new flue system etc I'd rather get it out the way by moving up to the loft. However to get a boiler in the loft and to keep access to it I'll have to get rid of the tanks so looks like I'll have to go for a combi.

My main concerns with this route are

1. In reality can they really keep up with filling a bath to a decent depth

1. I currently also have a shower over the bath, the pipework of which runs from the HW cylinder up to the roofspace and back down to a mixer valve, back us to the roof space and down to the shower head. (valve and head on different walls) This is run via a 1.4 bar pump. How noticeable of drop in performance am I likely to get if this is just run from the combi

Thanks

Jim

[Owain]

Not necessarily. The primary circuit of most modern boilers will work on a pressurised (unvented) system, so you would lose the header tank. I don't see why you couldn't keep the cold water supply tank if you wanted. Or there are various arrangements of unvented hot water storage systems that could also go up in the loft.

Combis can fill a bath to any depth you want. It just might take a while.

The shower will be mains pressure, which will probably not be dissimilar to the current pumped pressure. However, there will be a limitation of flow vs temperature. This assumes your mains pressure and flow are both adequate - they might not be.

Google this group for the fairly new Boiler Choice FAQ as well as the other heating FAQS dealing with combi boilers, pressurised systems etc.

Owain

[Doctor Drivel]

Don't be ridiculous. A tank raise? My, oh my.

Unvented cylidners require an annula service charge.

best with a high flowrate combi.

[Doctor Drivel]

Jim

Best put a combi in the loft. The Alpha cd50 is wall mounted and fill a bath pronto. There are many high flow floor mounted jobs around: Viessmann, Gledhill (can do up to 3 baths), Potterton Powermax, Atmos, Worceter Bosch

440 Highflow, etc.

[John Rumm]

Although you may need to do some floor strengthening work first since these storage based combis are very heavy. Also for any boiler in the loft you will need adequate lighting and a floored area to work from when installing and servicing the boiler. Finally if the loft hatch is close to the work area then you will need some guarding round the hatch to stop the poor chap servicing it from falling down!

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:09:40 GMT someone who may be "Jim" wrote this:-

Possibly, possibly not.

That does not follow at all. There are a number of other options, for example a thermal store coupled to a boiler. A hot water cylinder fed from a boiler is another option.

Not really, unless you have plenty of time to wait for the combination boiler to fill the bath.

You have missed out the most important information, which you need to provide if you want some useful advice rather then guesswork. How many people live in the house, how much hot water do they consume and in what pattern?

Note also that the source of hot water is best placed near the tap that is used the most, which is usually the kitchen tap.

Most of this has been discussed before here and a search engine will call it up.

[Doctor Drivel]

It depends on his usage. By the post it appears he has one bathroom. A high flow conmbi is ideal here.

Total bollocks. High flow combis will fill a bath as fast as any cylinder.

[Keith D]

[Dave Plowman (News)]

He quote adspeak again.

[Doctor Drivel]

He is a Cheggers fan you know.

[David Hansen]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 17:19:49 +0100 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel" wrote this:-

Excellent, personal abuse. Usually the resort of those with no better arguments.

Perhaps, but only with tepid water.

People can study the archives and decide how much attention they wish to pay to your assertions.

[Jim]

Thanks for all the responses so far, just to clarify, loft space is pretty limited, so to physically get the boiler in position I'll have to take the cold water and F&E tanks out. I suppose I could put them back in afterwards but this would make reaching the boiler for servicing etc a job for contortionists only! That's what prompted the combi decision.

There are currently 2 adults and one cash withdrawal machine (2 year old girl !) in the house. At the moment the only peak we have is in the mornings when the shower is used twice in quick succession and the CH is on. Other than that we don't really have that high a demand although I gues that could change in a few years when the little one gets a bit older

Cheers

Jim

[Matt]

As Captain Oates said, I'm off for a bath I might be some time. 96 years later it's still not deep enough to float his toy penguin.

[Guy King]

The message from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

[Doctor Drivel]

Where? Bollocks is bollocks and you wrote it.

No. Bollocks is bollocks and you wrote it.

Not perhaps. THEY DO. Please do not comment any matters you clearly don't know anything about. Did someone in the boozer tell you all that?

[Doctor Drivel]

Jim, yep, a high flow combi is what you need. Get a good one. Also you need to have a permanent shoot down ladder, boarded from hatch to the boiler, a light and if boiler near the hatch a rail around the hatch (can be wood screwed to the rafters) and also a gas isolation tap in the house, sually in the airing cupboard. Fit the boiler as high as possible, so it is not used for storage. I would advise to have heavy rocwool insulation between the joinst under the boiler to reduce/eliminate any noise into the bedrooms below.

[Doctor Drivel]

Lord Hall, was that the best you can come up with.

[Doctor Drivel]

No. If a combi has an integrated unvented cylinder then the boiler service does the cylinder. Stand alone unvented cylinders need an annual service.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Also, in a loft, beware of fixing heavy weights to gable-end walls, particularly high up. The wall has little weight on it to keep it stable, just the bricks you can see (they do sometimes blow out in strong winds). You can get mounting frames to transfer the boiler weight to the floor (although you need to make sure the floor can stand the weight too in a loft).

[Mathew Newton]