You obviously can't see it. E.g., a 60 litre cylinder will deliver more than 60 litres. It effectively increases the size of the cylinder. A conventional cylinder can be made "bigger" by not replacing it by having a flow switch that operates only when flow is above a certain rate (you don't want the boiler firing when the tap is on for a few seconds). Also a blending valve on the draw-off and storing water hotter will extend the size too. Blending valves are to become the norm next year.
Good. You can keeping going back to them.
Once again, a representative outlet temperature of approx 43C (average shower/bath) gives far more than near 7 litres/min. Of course having 99C outlet temperature would reduce the flowrate too. Duh!
I think you will find that I can "see it" just fine - I can also see it makes naff all difference in real terms...
Lets say somone is running a bath - they are drawing 30 lpm from the hot supply. Your 60 L tank will be completely drained in 2 mins. The replacement water will be at 5 deg. Lets say your snazzy integrated system in a box boiler has flow actuated switching and spots this the moment the bath tap goes on. So the boiler runs flat out for the whole two mins. Hence it adds 28000 x 120 = 3,360,000 J of heat to the cold water. So 3360000 / 4200 / 60 gives a temp delta of 13 odd degrees, raising its temperature to a tad over 18 degrees total...
So your bath was running for two mins. You were drawing 30 lpm from the hot plus say 15 lpm of cold water - 90L so far - the mix temp would have worked about right allowing for some losses heating the bath etc. You are now however filling the bath 30 lpm of 18 degree water mixed with 15 lpm of 5 degree water. You do the math...
If somone got in the shower a couple of mins before the bath started running, the situation gets even worse.
I can - not much point though - you obviously don't want to learn...
Next time you are in a book shop, why not look out a basic book on physics? You may find it helps. Otherwise you are not going to shake your reputation that every time you open your mouth in public it is just to change feet.
Pay attention, you need to take into consideration the temp of the stored water, and the rate of draw off. The 43 degrees is the blend temperature. Even with an auto blending valve you are not going to sustain the 43 degree output when the temperature of both inputs fall (or remain) below that figure.
You don't know. Get real man!! I bet you are not even a real Little Middle Englander either. Are you sitting there with your Wayne Rooney mask on? I bet not!
No it will not. These actually fill a 120 litre bath with no problems at all (for your info: BS recommened flow for a bath tap is 16 litres/min).
Here is a snip from uk.d-i-y regarding an Ariston Genus 27 which has an integral 60 litre cylinder...
Anyway, it's all plumbed in and it is superb. The central heating works like a dream - it's like a sauna in our house. AND tons of hot water. It's great.
I'm looking forward to creating another bathroom in the loft and seeing if this boiler can handle the demand from 2 bathrooms.
So, on my limited experience of heating systems and boilers I would recommend this boiler if anyone wants lots of heat and hot water.
This proves you are on planet Zog and detached from reality. Just about every man woman and child in the UK in the past 2 weeks has heard of Wayne Rooney, unless you live on the top of a mountain....or on planet Zog.
I've just read in the news that he has something to do with football, which I explained much earlier holds less than zero interest for me. I also read that the England team is out of the tournament, which presumably means that once we have had the obligatory hooliganism and gratuitous violence the silly flags on cars episode will also end.
Just? What has it been like on planet Zog for the past 2 weeks?
An unsporting man. A man without sport is an odd one. I always watch them.
You mean foreign police forces having baton practice on our citizens!
By foreign police forces.
So you were not wearing a Wayne Rooney mask then! How unpatriotic! And you think the English flag silly too. Get back to planet Zog. If you were my neighbour I would watch you very carefully.
I didn't say that, just that football holds no interest. There are other sports.
If they misbehave then that is entirely reasonable
I didn't say that either and I previously explained that I am by no means unpatriotic. However, I do think that use of England flags on idiot's cars and houses in connection with something as trivial as a football tournament is inappropriate. I don't think that national identity and culture depends on a group of inarticulate and overpaid primadonnas attempting to kick a ball around.
Tiddlywinks? Football is the beautiful game, the most popular in the world. A game we gave to the world.
No. Foreign police forces having baton practice on our citizens.
Should we wave flags for Tiddywinks then?
Petty snobbery coming out here.
Jealousy too. Is it because most of the talent is from the working class? I think so.
People like you stand out.
I read this in the Mirror. It is typical of the attitude of people like you. This kid may prove to be the greatest sporting talent we have ever produced. It certainly looks that way. He is "world" news... Probably not on planet Zog though.
TAKE THE MICKEY, ROONEY Jun 24 2004
IT WAS the (now second) most famous Scouser who described what it felt like to come from nothing and get it all.
"They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool, 'til you're so f****** crazy you can't follow the rules. A working-class hero is something to be," was John Lennon's take on the peculiarly British suspicion of everyone from a council house who makes it.
Wayne Rooney is more Busted than Beatles, so he's probably not familiar with the lyric. But by now he'll be well-acquainted with the sentiments.
How all the praise he's receiving is laced with a patronising air and a smug prediction that, as sure as butts follow benders, he'll self-destruct.
He first came across this snobbery when he won the BBC's Young Sports Personality Of The Year aged 16, and was labelled an uncouth slob because he chewed gum and had a loosened tie.
When he took his parents to Mexico and their pale, un-toned frames were caught stumbling out of the sea, they were ridiculed for not knowing that their place was in a Blackpool chip-shop queue.
When his fiancee's 18th birthday party ended in fisticuffs, his relatives were likened to Jerry Springer trailer-trash.
Profiles describe him as a "scally" from the "deprived" streets of Croxteth, by people who know as much about him and Croxteth as they do about sorghum prices in Zambia. And no analysis of his future is complete without warnings about him ending up like Gazza and George Best.
An alcoholic wreck, violently abusing himself, his talent and those around him. Why? Because received wisdom states that's what happens to poorly-educated, working-class lads when they confront sudden wealth.
And it sums up how deeply-entrenched the class system still is in a country which judges people on their appearance, accent and background before their talent.
In a Daily Mail article which suggests he is Gazza II, a leading writer asks: "Is there some hidden vice, some secret in Rooney's psyche which is yet to emerge? Drink, drugs, wife-beating?"
Well, as someone who went to the same school as Rooney and knows his teachers, the answer to that disgracefully loaded question is no.
So why is it being asked, if not in expectation and hope that those vices exist? Were those same assumptions made of middle-class sportsmen like Tim Henman or Jonny Wilkinson? No. Because they're assumed to have a breeding and education which teaches them how to cope with upward-mobility. But Rooney is doomed because council house lads can't escape their roots.
An attitude summed up in the popular email above, which shows stolen goods falling from Rooney's pockets as he celebrates a Euro 2004 goal, next to the words, "You can take the boy out of Liverpool..."
A woefully-dated gag that may offend some Scousers, perhaps. But it's far more honest than the patronising inference lurking beneath much of the praise, that the lovable scally is an ugly late-night arrest waiting to happen.
Fortunately, young Rooney has seen it all before. Two years ago he walked into a Chelsea estate agents with a fellow Evertonian, only to be escorted off the premises when they opened their mouths, by staff who thought the shell-suited pair were lining up burglaries. Today, the richest man Chelsea has ever seen, salivates over the sight of a track-suited Rooney. Roman Abramovich wants him so badly he'll part with a £50million cheque, plus £8million-a-year in wages to entice him to those same golden streets.
If Rooney goes, he should do every council house kid in the land a favour. Get Roman to drop him off in his limo outside that London estate agents. Do a celebratory cartwheel into their office with £50 notes dropping out of his pockets. And watch the petrified, cap-doffing, class-riddled snobs in suits drop to their knees and gather it up.
Then tell them he's buying the shop, turning it into a shell-suit emporium, and throwing them on the dole.
DIMM dribbled on his keyboard and some words appeared:
OK so it has a built in flow restrictor - whoopy do! Still makes naff all differnece:
Your 60 litre tank will cycle all pre heated stored water out in 3 mins then - gives the boiler an extra 60 seconds to impart its 28kW. Net result after 3 mins the hot water is coming out at 25 degress instead of
(Not forgetting the taps are still set to mix water at 5 degres 1:2 with the now cool "hot" water.
I am sure it will fill it - but who wants a bath full of tepid water?
As long as "hot" is defined as cool.... what is your name Tony Blair?
So would a bog standard non storage 38kW combi... your point being what exactly?
I would expect that would depend on the size of your family and their lifestyles, not something you can prognosticate about. You will just have to accept - combis are fine but they have limitations. Some people can live with them (myself included) some can't. A standard system boiler with separate (correctly sized) cylinder will be a better solution in some situations. The "system in a box" things you seem to think are combis might be easy to install but beyond that they seem to run out of attractions...
go on then - argue day is night if it makes you happy. Only if you want to defy the lays of thermodynamics, please post the maths you use to arrive at the conclusions you come to. We could do with a laugh.
No you are out of date Dave - multiple boilers was the fad months ago... storage systems that convince the gullible they are combis are the thing to go for now apparently - they can fill a bathroom super good I am told. Perhaps they printed that in the Mirror as well.
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