combi versus conventional boilers

My advice would be to choose a system that matches the requirements and not preclude either solution. Combis have their attractions, as do storage systems, but there is no one size fits all solution. I have had both setups in this house, and both have pros and cons. Yes either system can be "perfect" in an ideal world, but it is very difficult to achieve perfection in the real world with real budgets. Exotic solutions exist for combis and storages systems (and systems that are a mixture of both). It seems rather too easy for the proponents of one particular technology to talk about the exotica as if it is routinely fitted mainstream stuff. For most users the generalisations (flow rate, space, performance etc) are mostly true, even though there are exceptions to the "rules".

Reply to
John Rumm
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Please eff off as you are a plantpot.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

As opposed to living in one, weed.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

True. But things like the space a conventional storage system takes up are easily understood by most. And most can again easily work out if saving that space is worth it to them.

Thing is there are countless examples of firms recommending replacing these with a combi regardless of the needs of the household. And we have such a person posting here regularly. Very few will be starting with a blank canvass where the considerable extra cost of a storage system will matter. But if they already have one the costs of bringing it up to date are not large when replacing a boiler at the same time.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Please eff off as you are a plantpot.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Boy he got it!! They take up more space and people can see that.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

The problem is people like George Wimpey seem to fit storage systems to very small flats. God only knows why as I guess they are more expensive as well as taking up additional space. Certainly no better than Combi systems I have used. And there appear to be more things to go wrong (microprocessor PCB + spaghetti wiring)

Also if the storage system needs replacing I wonder how heavy it is and how you get it out of a top floor flat without taking the roof of and hiring a crane.

Reply to
whitely525

Could be any number of reasons I guess... but I would be surprised if they are deliberately pushing their total costs up without good (to them) reasons.

It may come down to the case that a conventional system will require less user education - so they will get fewer complaints from the people who can't understand how to get a bath of hot water out of a combi.

Water pressure variability issues can be more of a problem in high rise and multi unit properties. I expect that gas supply infrastructure may also come into it.

Quite a number of new builds seem to be opting for unvented storage systems as well.

The differences in total system complexity are not that great - just the components may be distributed further apart on a storage system.

Which bit of the system did you have in mind?

Reply to
John Rumm

The whole assembly of the thermal store. Believe it weighs >=3D50kg but is bulky. Certainly wouldn't fancy moving it up 4 flights of stairs.

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Reply to
whitely525

Chav, all you do is turn on the tap.

An many local authorities are turning to heat banks as there is not annual maintenance and dripping pipes on people in the street.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

A conventional hot water cylinder is paper thin, and nowhere near 50kg. A straight forward single man lift.

Header tanks are typically plastic and even lighter.

Reply to
John Rumm

Most people accustomed to stored water systems turn the hot tap "full on" when filling a bath, then adjust the cold to achieve final mix temperature. With the vast majority of combis that have no flow regulation, this will result in tepid water at best. If you restrict the flow rate at the mains input to the combi with a simple gate valve then you can't account for varying ground water temperature.

Why do you suppose so many people believe that you can't get a hot bath out of a combi? For many, the concept that you turn the hot tap down to get a hotter bath will be counter intuitive.

Reply to
John Rumm

So turning the tap either way to get hot water requires and educational course!

Because ignorant amateur people on here tell them combis can't fill a bath when countless models will fill a bath faster than a cylinder/tank setup.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Eh? You don't need no microprocessor for a storage system - they've been around for long before they were invented.

Eh? Again? They don't come full of water...

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

A Gledhill thermal store complete with pumps, heat exchanger, casing, very thick insulation, etc, is not light. I have seen these in flats, which is overkill when a well specced quality combi can deliver the same DHW and heating.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Yes, but my system does.

Fair point, but it is still very bulky. >~50kg is the weight when empty. Replacing that is some job (removing the old one and installing a new one w/o damaging it). Although of course it should last a long time it is only 'guaranteed' for 2 years.

=A0 London SW

Reply to
whitely525

Seems nobody believes you despite how often you state it. With good reason since it's simply one of your lies.

Just to explain things to you for your further education. The restriction on the speed you can fill a bath from via a storage system depends only the size of the pipes etc, head and resistance to flow within the pipes. Imagine emptying a bucket if you think gravity is a deterrent to high flow.

A combi is restricted not only by its spec but by the maximum flow from the incoming main and the capacity of the gas supply. All three (or any) of which combine to restrict the speed a bath can be filled with water at the desired temperature.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

But so do most combis.

A conventional hot water cylinder weighs nothing like 50 Kg. Nor does a header tank.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Only for you it seems.

The audience for usenet is tiny, so most people won't get the chance to read your "ignorant amateur" ramblings anyway. BTW, I like the new bit of bogosity: "countless models will fill a bath faster than a cylinder/tank setup" - countless huh? Perhaps if you are limited to the fingers of one hand.

Reply to
John Rumm

Please eff off as you ae a plantpot.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

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