Combi question.

[Doctor Drivel]

If I recall this was explained to you:

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DON'T get any condensing boiler with a secondary heat exchanger. There are now tons of these around as the makers have converted their old ranges using most of the old parts. It is a Heat Robinson affair. The BIASI has a secondary heat exchanger.

Get a one piece heat exchanger, side or downward firing burner. The Ideal Icos and Glow Worm Condensers are good and well priced. I would go for the Glow Worm. Well priced and good. If you buy cheapo will may regret it

And volume sales

If condensing and they have a secondary condensing heat exchanger don't bother. Avoid ANY boiler with a secondary heat exchanger. Many makers have just sipped them in to comply with the 1st Aril condensing regs. Buy boilers with a top mounted burners and a one piece heat exchanger.

Avoid anything made by Ravenheat. BIASI are better. The non-condensing combi is a well priced budget boiler. They use a lot of pretty well standard parts, so simple enough.

Why don't you get a very high flowrate multi-point instant water heater and a small condensing system boiler for the heating. Two simple systems. No tanks or cylinders and wizzo hot water on-demand flowrates. Rinnai, the Japanese maker who are the world's largest maker of gas appliances, are now importing into the UK. There products are "excellent". 38 litres/min? They have it. They regulate the hot water output to +- 1 degree F. You can have a remote control temperature control, one is waterproof for the shower, so you have the temperature say 37C for the shower and them zap it up to 55C for the kitchen sink. The Rinnia can also be fitted "outside" on an outside wall, if you have location and fluing problems. Rinnia is probably the largest selling instant water heater in the world.

This is a highly cost effective route.

[timegoesby]

So would I, and you will find sound advise. Doctor Evil/Doctor Drivel/IMM, any of those, all the same poster, and clearly very experienced. I buy and renovate houses, and he is the only one worth reading on heating and water systems. I have used his advice to great effect in the past, and Google a lot on his posts. His detractors are not worth taking seriously at all. Just take no notice of them. In a current thread, he gave a landlord excellent options, while the other contributors merely stupidly slagged and mainly took up space.

It takes a while to realise which people to take notice of. Andy Wade, who has been missing of late, is good for electrics, and various others on building work.

[John Rumm]

I fitted an Isar HE35 (a combination of requirements lead to its choice

- a primary one being it was small enough to fit the space it needed to go in, and the WB was too big!).

From a hot water performance perspective it is just about adequate, but I am glad I did not fit a smaller one. If you hardly ever use the bath however you may find the 30kW ones acceptable.

BTW Beware of Drivel's claims of a "average" bath being 100 litres. He has been challenged many times on this claim, and yet has never been able to substantiate it. Most baths will be a fair bit more than this (unless you like a 3" deep puddle). So using a figure of 150 litres may be a safer assumption.

You should certainly be able to use the stat and the programmer. There will be no need for the rest unless you are also planning to keep the hot water cylinder (which you could drive from the heating side of a combi if you wanted).

If you want more flexibility and better temperature control of the heating through the day, then a programmable stat may be a better choice. Screwfix do a range of Horstman ones that are quite good and well priced.

[Andy Hall]

Are you sure?

- Typically proposes use of one or two combis regardless of the requirement and without taking regard to whether the water supply is adequate or the gas supply used beyond spec.

- Comes up with overly complicated solutions which apparently defy the laws of physics using thermal stores which add complexity and reduce reliability while providing no real benefit to the user.

- Tries to alter the OP's requirement when it becomes clear that the recommended solution won't work

- Advocates use of multipoint water heaters in an unapproved mode

- Has a new "best product" each month

- Advocates ridiculous levels of insulation and hermetic sealing to houses while completely missing the larger issues.

- Claims to be professionally qualified but is evasive when asked about it.

- Is unable/unwilling to read manufacturer instructions on products and then blames the product when problems happen.

These are just a few which spring to mind. It would be advisable to establish credentials and seek professional opinions ......

[Doctor Drivel]

no optimisation and very large and ugly looking. The cheap end of the market. The CM67 is world away from such stuff.

Another example of poor advice.

[John Rumm]

Optimisation in a small property with relatively low total heating demand is of dubtfull value - especially when coupled to a combi that is significantly overspecified from a heating load perspective.

Note also that the 50 quid version is typically the version *without* the optimum start capability.

As to "large an ugly looking", they are actually very similar in size, and one could argue the Centaurstat has nice clean lines without all the wavy lines of the Honeywell. However each to his own.

It will do the job more than well enough at one third of the price. A win win situation!

BTW, check TLC for programmable stats - they have a good range.

So stop offering it then.

[Doctor Drivel]

An optimised unit will pay for itself in a matter of a few years.

Irrelevant point.

The Hostman is ugly an bulky compare to the CM67. I would not like it on my wall.

Just. The CM67 is a world away from it. Comparing a Lada to a Rolls Royce.

[Doctor Drivel]

Total cack

More cack.

Simple solutions, which invariably contain one box solutions. No tanks in lofts and cylinders, when superior solutions are availabl;e. You obviously would know a good one from a bad one.

Oh my God!! He has been at the O level books again.

This half wit doesn't understand simple thermal stores. The best solution.

You don't even comprehend the requirements in the first instance.

Your madness is showing through.

It is clear you don't understand the issue in the first place.

Professionally qualified and experienced. I will not divulge personal details to Internet loonies like yourself.

Another confused DIYer.

He did. Mine.

Isn't it amazing how the Little Middle Englander mind works.

[Capitol]

Some contributors such as yourself appear to be easily fooled by verbose but frequently stupid, and generally inadequate, responses from the resident one size fits all, combi advocate who is frequently unable to write properly in the English language and never justifies his figures. If you really believe that IMM is worth reading and believing, then I'm very suspicious of your appraisal and critical facilities and would never under any circumstances attach any credulity to your responses! Do you live in the next door council flat, which you have purchased?

Messrs Hall, Plowman, Sirett and Raden etc, have the advantage of being expert experienced practitioners rather than waffling internet theorists, so have far greater credibility when a problem is being discussed.

Regards Capitol

[Doctor Drivel]

Appears he is not. This is fun. Now wait for this....

Of what? Maxie recons pcbs and Sirret is limited in his experience mainly just fitting Vailllant combi's. The other two are professional in nothing. And you? I wouldn't let you near my house to even wash the windows. Plowman? He works in sound studio looking after the cables. It is clear the man is a lunatic. You are naive......or just plain stupid.

What fun.

[timegoesby]

I couldn't have put it better myself. Who am I to compete with a poet?

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article , Andy Hall writes

You do realise you're talking to one of Drivel's sockpuppets?

[timegoesby]

You can't be serious? I actually think you are. Well one of the detractors I was on about. Have a nice day, what is left of it.

[Doctor Drivel]

My God!!! They are all here tonight. The whole clinic. Another systems admin man. Lord Hall is your soulmate that is clear. Such fun!

[Owain]

And you work in a plumbers' merchant. You are there to look after the dog. The dog is there to make sure you don't try to give advice to the customers.

This is why you have a permanent chip on your shoulder.

The dog has bigger bollocks than you.

The dog can lick his own bollocks.

The dog won't let you lick his bollocks.

It's getting late, so why don't you refill the paper towel dispenser in the Gents and then you can curl up in bed with "Janet and John Build A Wendy House".

Owain

[Doctor Drivel]

What alias are you doing this week? You are so easy.

[John Rumm]

There is a nice post from old timey back in 2000 where he nearly creams himself when he hears about Adam's (as he was pretending to be at the time) two combi solution...

Looks like a dedicated disciple indeed...

[Matt]

You are Drivels mother and I claim my five pound note

[Matt]

So the tablets are working?

90% already? That tosser Prescott has done a really good job.

[Doctor Drivel]

Yep. A bright man. I looked at this post.

of the best on here for years; very informative, which more than I can say about the 4 or 5 regular loony trolls here. This is the thread Lord Hall was castigated for having a total attitude problem.